NHS again

I haven't voted Labour for the last three or four elections, but some people on here are definitely making me feel I ought to this year.

Eloethan

You are incorrect.

I have on many occasions stated that I have voted for both Labour and the Conservatives. My posts since joining GN have also I am sure been noted by most GN to say 'I tend to lean to the right'. So far I am going to vote Conservative in May because the Labour Leadership and it's policies are not to my mind going to be good for the country. That's to say the policies I have managed to assess because they change their mind according to their audience, won't commit to how/where/when/give financial details other than a 5 point plan which melted into fluff. My main concern is Ed Balls and Ed Miliband, I simply think they are thick at times. Obviously others think the opposite.

I have for example said I like Labour MP's such as Frank Field, Kate Hoey, Gisela Stuart etc. I will say if I think a government action is wrong. I have stated my father was a Union Rep years ago and he realised how stupid the union movement were getting in the 60's 70's and gave it up. Both he and I have suffered nastiness at the hands of the unions, posted bout this somewhere. I voted for Tony Blair as I thought Labour had changed but all I see is the strangle hold of the unions once more and a weak Labour Leader. Before you and anybody else kicks up a stink I believe there is a place for unions but I abhore some of their tactics etc.

I am not sure why you state I have said 'The NHS should be taken out of politics altogether'. Have I? I would be grateful if you could give me the post day and time as I have no recollection of ever saying that.

Is it a right wing ideological perspective to take the NHS out of politics? I haven't heard that to be honest and your freedom of interest comment for my mind doesn't say anything other than continuing Labours PlansPlans to Part Privatise the NHS. I will think on it a bit more!

As for hypocrisy and ' s--t flying off a shovel' I will own up to that none and I will take the opportunity to say it again and I think Andy Burnham is the biggest of them all.

I look, watch, learn and listen to points raised by both left and right of politics. I make decisions on facts and figures not political dogma which to some is practically a religion. To my mind having a closed mine is a dangerous thing. No party has all the answers, no party is incapable of hypocrisy or spin but we each make an evaluation and vote accordingly don't we.

POGS You say that you take no particular party line but that you "do dislike hypocrites, and it is flying like shit off a shovel at the moment." You present yourself as being apolitical and yet it seems that almost every post you make on political issues is accepting of and supportive of the statements put forward by the Conservative Party.

You say that "the NHS should be taken out of politics all together". In fact the Conservative Party has most certainly approached the subject of the NHS from a right wing ideological perspective. It has a stated commitment to "shrinking" government but - as I pointed out before - it has been less keen to openly reveal how this will be done:

"A Freedom of Information release unearthed communications between management consultancy firm McKinsey and the Department of Health, which revealed how over 20 NHS hospitals should be taken over by foreign firms. This process should be done with a “mindset of one at a time…because of various political constraints associated with privatisation.”

There also appears to be some confusion as to what UKIP's policies are since they change from week to week, a recent example being:

"Farage sparked controversy by claiming that privatising large parts of the NHS was 'a debate that we're all going to have to return to' if the health service was going to stay affordable. Within hours of the remarks Ukip's Health Spokesman, Louise Bours, insisted Mr Farage was out of touch with the public when it came to the NHS."

It is therefore quite obvious that the issues of the NHS and public services in general are very much political ones and those who suggest they are not are either being naive or less than frank.

By the way, as will be noted from my previous posts, I do not present myself as being politically neutral - I dislike Conservative/UKIP/New Labour ideology and am increasingly in sympathy with Green Party policies.

I do not see anything wrong with the quote I gave about making sure every politician knows that the NHS is the most important thing to both the person who wrote the quote and to me.
You do not have to say "stating the bleeding obvious" because to some MPs it does not appear to be all that obvious. Some MPs want to sell off the NHS, including Farage again, according to today's papers, although the rest of his party do not agree with him. Maybe he'll sack them all and start again.

Yes and expect a response.

I don't understand why you throw that sort of comment at people durhamjen, unless you expect and demand nobody dares to disagree or make a comment that does not toe your line.

The NHS is not the domain of only one or two posters. We all have varying views and experiences and post as we find . It's how a thread works!

NHS is the most important part of it as far as I am concerned. This thread is called the NHS again so presumably I am allowed to mention the NHS and give quotes about the NHS.

durhamjen

Well, yes but surely any politician of any colour understands his career success is linked to their actions, whether it involves the NHS, Education, the Economy etc.

Stating the bleeding obvious , it's called loosing your job at the election.

Then it all starts over again but maybe with another bunch knowing their career is linked to their actions.

The NHS is just part of it not the entirety of it.

Well, Ed seems to know, with his cunning plan of 'weaponising' the NHS in his election campaign...

This is very interesting. It's from BiguptheNHS.

" Only the government in power can make the changes necessary to safeguard the NHS.
We don’t know who will be in power after the next election so pinning your hopes on one party is risky.
Politicians are driven by a mixture of idealism and self-interest. It is not likely we can change their beliefs; self-interest is the Achilles heel.
So we must make sure that ALL politicians believe that that the success of their career is inextricably linked to the success of the NHS."

I agree with him. How to let them know is the problem.

This is from the horse's mouth, so to speak. If you are wondering why you or someone you know do/does not get joined up care, read this.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/anonymous/dear-patient-why-your-care-is-getting-shattered-not-more-%27joined-up%27

It's what I expect, but still very depressing.

I wonder how they put them up without anyone in authority noticing, Ariadne?

Saw them, dj and they are superb!

Here's the NHA take on what should happen after Hinchingbrooke. It also says about other private healthcare companies pulling out of their contracts.

nhap.org/nha-party-calling-fact-finding-inquiry-hinchingbrooke-return-hospital-nhs/

By the way, for the previous posts, if you go on thepoke.co.uk you can find the humorous signs listed.

How weird. Copy it into your search engine.
It works on Yahoo and Google for me.

www.thepoke.co.uk/2015/01/12/nhs-signs-post/

Sorry. Didn't work. This should.

A little light relief, if it wasn't so serious.

t.co/snlxP9wAnS

Yes, I'll say vote anything except Tory or Ukip.

I find this quite sinister, and it's in the Express. They are talking about sidelining GPs.

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/551360/Crisis-hit-NHS-radically-reformed-modern-age

I got the link from Keep our NHS public, of which I am also a member, and do not mind admitting to it.
If you actually read the NHA party website, you will see that they are not just interested in the NHS.

What experience and qualifications did Osborne have to become chancellor of the Exchequer?
When the Tories brought in the Health and Social Care act, they put the medical profession in charge of spending the NHS budget.
So what's the difference between that and the NHA party being in charge of the economy? They are as qualified as Osborne, and they care about more people.

Some will say NHA won't they!

Yes would be my answer. Do that if you only see the NHS as the sole reason to give your vote to a party at the next election.

I don't see perfection in any political party, contrary to what some would believe, but I do dislike hypocrisy and it is flying like s--t off a shovel at the moment and obviously bloggers, political parties, the media will do their best to steer anybody who will listen in the direction they want them to go. That's why I tend to steer clear of any link that is clearly left/right wing in it's policy.

I prefer to judge and make my opinion based on a multitude of thoughts, listening to 'reasoned' debate and looking at information that is not biased and trying to brainwash me into believing every word whilst failing to give a balanced view.

Spin is a decieptful aspect to politics and is widely used by those who have very little else to promote their cause. If a link does try to show fairness, such as the last one from durhamjen then I will read what it has to say , whether I agree or not is not the point it gives me another piece of information to take in but not by being overtly politically biased.

So probably a good reason to vote Green then.

durhamjen

Yes it was an interesting link, even I agree with. I do however find your comment which gives the impression only conservative politicians are the devils spawn unbalanced and for those who don' t/ won't read links I would like to say this in connection to the link.

Andrew Robertson is a left wing blogger with connections to the left wing media such as The Guardian, Russia Today etc. however I thought the link was fairly balanced, other than I think there could be other names from the political world that were missing.

What I liked about the link was his policy to not only list conservative connections to the private companies but the Labour / Lib Dem MP's and Lords, he knows of!!!. Such as Frank Dobson, Alistair Darling, David Miliband to name a few.

I thought his reply to one of the posts in response to the link provided was one that sums up the state of play rather well. Somebody asked why Labour started the privatisation of the NHS. His reply:-

'Because they (Labour) also represented the market, shared the ideology and 'obtained the vested interests'

A very fair point to make in my opinion .

For those who prefer not to read links, this paragraph in durhamjen's link is quite important:

"A secret plan to hand over NHS hospitals to foreign companies was initially exposed by the transparency campaigners, Spinwatch in 2011. A Freedom of Information release unearthed communications between management consultancy firm McKinsey and the Department of Health, which revealed how over 20 NHS hospitals should be taken over by foreign firms. This process should be done with a “mindset of one at a time…because of various political constraints associated with privatisation.”

This was in the news less than a year ago.

socialinvestigations.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/the-house-of-circle.html

There are 17 links between Conservative lords and MPs and Circle.

This could be another reason that there are problems in certain hospitals and A&Es.

"Some areas receive more money than they are entitled to under the latest funding formula and efforts have been made to rebalance spending. However, Ms Hodge said that the pace of change had been “very slow”.

She said there were “huge variations” across the country, with Corby receiving £137 per person below its fair share, and West London receiving £367 per person above it. Overall, around two fifths of CCGs and three quarters of local authorities were receiving five per cent below or above their target funding allocation, the committee said.

A Department of Health spokesperson said: “We are increasing the health budget by billions each year and the NHS has changed the way it gives money to local areas so that it better reflects population size and targets areas of deprivation.” "

I would like to know how a D0H spokesperson can say they are increasing the health budget by billions each year when everybody knows that they have been decreasing it by £20 billion over the past five years. The two statements are not compatible.
Simon Stevens has asked for the NHS to be given another £8 billion over the next five years whilst at the same time asking for £22 billion efficiency savings. What?

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/01/nhs-privatisation-experiment-unravelling-our-eyes

Hinchingbrooke Hospital had a bad CQC report last September. This latest one is because they did not improve in many areas. I am pleased I do not live in Huntingdon, being used as a loss leader for a private company.
The reason that the NHS bidders pulled out was because they knew that Circle was offering to do the impossible. It's a case of being hoist by their own petard.

It's okay saying that the NHS should be taken out of politics. That should have happened before Lansley's reforms and before the large scale privatisation plans.
Many of the builders who took on PFI have decided to get out of healthcare now, even though they are still reeling in the billions. They know that it will not carry on. It's like pyramid selling. Those that get in at the beginning do okay, and become preferred bidders. When people realise what a con they are, no other companies can make money out of them.

What has happened with Hinchingbrooke is similar to the East Coast Main Line. A company puts in a low offer, gets the business, gets rid of staff to lower costs, realises that they do not make enough money, then hands it back for the tax payer to correct the mess.

Thanks for the post durhamjen Jeremy Hunt is a typical example of a Conservative-Say one thing -Do the opposite- Make use of anyone or anything. What I don't understand is why anyone would take a sick child to A&E rather than calling the out of hours service. I had to take my own kids to A&E on several occasions when they had accidents (boys!) they had brilliant care, but it isn't somewhere I would have wanted them to be if they were really ill.
I've just thought would not using the term A&E but calling it Emergencies Only cut down the number of people using it. I am sure there are people out there who don't know what A&E stands for and just think of it as an easy way to see a doctor