NHS again

You said that your parents were conned by Tony Blair, and that was why they voted Labour. A great number of voters were conned by Tony Blair - he was (and still is) a consumate showman.

I thought that by saying that, you understood why they changed the habits of a lifetime.

(in response to durhamjen's last post - didn't see yours, POGS)

You are assuming that the policies each party offers are constant and that those who would generally support a particular party support all its views. I don't think that is true durhamjen and if what is most important to you us better represented by another party at some point why would you not vote for them. ... and there is tactical voting, of course.

It looks as if the best bet for the NHS in England may be to encourage the Scots to vote SNP

durhamjen

Your response to my reply to Eloethan is very muddled .

If you don't understand there are some people who vote as they find at the time of an election then that is hardly an issue worth commenting on as you obviously have a rigid stance on the matter and any amount of debating the subject would be a total waste of time .

I think it's quite funny, Gracesgran, that Osborne has challenged Labour to rule out a power sharing deal with the SNP after the next election.
I think about 15 Libdem MPs have Scottish constituencies.

My parents never ever had any socialist views. The fact that they voted for Blair, and they specifically said Blair, was because they thought he represented their views, which means he most definitely did not represent my views. I never voted for his party when he was in power even though I had always voted Labour before. So I do not assume that the policies that each party offers are constant.

Do you remember Cameron saying vote blue, get green?
He was lying about that as well as the NHS having no top down reorganisation.

That's okay, POGS. I do not expect a debate from someone with views as entrenched as yours.

durhamjen

So you have voted for more than one party. What was the meaning of your post 20.47.

Of course I've voted for more than one party. I've said so lots of times. It's just you who thinks I have entrenched views, so do not read what I say.
I am just not so stupid as to have voted Tory.

Latest news; the debates are likely to include the Green Party and the SNP. At least someone can see sense.

I was quite surprised to see on Facebook today that the Greens have more actual members than UKIP. Perhaps I must start taking the Greens seriously as I thought they were more or less dead ducks now.

A great number of voters were conned by Tony Blair - he was (and still is) a consumate showman.
Such a great loss to the Royal Shakespeare Company showbiz

I am just not so stupid as to have voted Tory.

I thought it was against GN rules to name call - posters who have stated that they will vote conservative at the next election are now being called stupid! Along with anyone who says they have voted conservative in the past. I am sure a certain poster's parents would be mortified to think that their child thought they were 'stupid'. I would never have called my parents stupid for having minds of their own and voting how they wished - or for any reason.
I suppose if you can be nasty about your parents you can be equally nasty to people you don't know.
Par for the course I suppose (I have been called 'silly', 'crass', 'uneducated' because I do not agree with some posters' views!).

I will keep my voting intentions to myself - after I have decided that is.

Reasoned debate has flown out of the window.

I'm sure he sometimes wishes he'd taken that path...

And don't we all?

(in reply to rosequartz's previous post, I hasten to add)

My parents knew what we thought of their politics. We argued about it a lot. My mother actually enjoyed it. It was one of the things that kept her going.
As my brother was in the army, she also had his vote by proxy and he voted the same and knew what I thought.
We did not shy away from politics in our house.
My parents kept DM articles to show me that they knew would annoy me.
If we did not have an argument, they wondered if I was ill. So sorry, you cannot get at me that way.
Perhaps you ought to read back a bit and see what people on this site have called me.

I didn't think saying that I am not so stupid as to vote Tory was name calling.

POGS Rosequartz has said that the words I attributed to you - "The NHS should be taken out of politics altogether" - were in fact hers. Since, as she says, your views are similar, I must have got what you have said mixed up - for which I'm sorry. It seems to be a common theme as in July last year gillybob used exactly the same words also.

The fact that I have misquoted you on that point does not negate what I was saying. You have until now given the impression that your attitude to party politics is "a plague on all their houses". This didn't accord with the frequent pro-Conservative/anti-Labour comments that you made. You now acknowledge that you are currently intending to vote Conservative.

Like durhamjen I also don't understand why "ordinary" people would ever vote for the Conservative Party. The clue to what it stands for is in its name - its purpose is to conserve the status quo, and it has on almost every occasion strived to maintain the power of the wealthy and privileged by opposing virtually all socially progressive policies.

I much preferred the principles of "Old" rather than "New" Labour which now seems to be only a slightly less draconian version of the Conservative Party. For that reason, I'm unlikely to vote for Labour at the coming election as I think the Green Party is more committed to social justice.

However, I think it is a gross misrepresentation to imply that Labour did nothing of any value during its tenure. As I've said before, most of us will remember the absolute chaos in the NHS, and the dilapidated state of schools and hospitals, when the Conservatives were in power. And, as predicted, we're back there again, according to the overwhelming view not just of "left wing" newspapers but of those working within the NHS and the education system.

Talking about the chaos of the NHS, this makes interesting reading.

www.thepeoplesassembly.org.uk/the_carnival_of_incompetence

Rather long, but too much of it is important to just quote from it.

I was in my local hospital yesterday afternoon having bloods taken. I was shocked to see the state of the (specialist) chairs in the department. They were very tatty and at least one if them was split.

My mum attends a state of the art dialysis unit at one of our biggest hospitals and has to take her own pillow with her as there are none there. Apparently they keep getting "stolen" and taken to other parts of he hospital.

Surely there is something seriously wrong somewhere and I don't blame any one political party. I blame

The NHS should be taken out of politics altogether.

I suggested it should be taken out of politics partly for that reason - the NHS seems to be so patchy in what it provides. Some hospitals and areas seem to be suffering from lack of resources, are understaffed or, quite frankly staff who do not care, others are state-of-the-art with wonderful equipment and excellent, caring staff.
I have seen both sides in both England and Wales. Well, I have not seen a state-of- the- art hospital in Wales but I don't think many (any?) are paying back huge PFI sums.

The "state of the art" facility to which I refer rosequartz is a purpose built Renal (Dialysis) unit which is attached to The Freeman Hospital in Newcastle. The building is perfect. It is light and airy. Lets not forget most renal patients (including my mum) spend almost half of their life there. On the other hand they always seem to be scrabbling around for the most basic things like blankets, pillows or blood pressure machines.

I have seen the other side of course (many times). Wards that appear to be totally overstaffed and/or wards where the patients seem to be a most inconvenient distraction to staff who were "busy doing nothing".

I agree that its is all very patchy. There are some excellent staff and some rotten ones. Some very good hospitals brought down by the lack of basic facilities. I am totally with you rosequartz on the need for the NHS to be taken out of the political agenda.

Eloethan

When I read your first sentence I thought fair enough a mistake was made and an apology followed. Finished/over with.

Then I read what was to follow and I have to tell you, because I believe I have earnt a right of reply, you continued to basically call me shallow and deceitful without having the courage to use those words.

You are simply wrong, wrong, wrong. You say in one breath I have until now said 'a plague on all their houses' but now I say I am going to vote Conservative. Then you say the reason you made the mistake was my view is the same as another so you HAVE made a decision as to my political persuasion after all.

That was no apology you just wanted to have the last word and continue where you left off.

As for my giving the impression of 'a plague on all their houses' I very often say 'a government of any colour' trying to be impartial but answering a post that I feel is either being hypocritical or A political and deserves a response. If you look at the political forum most threads are started by a poster with a left wing view or point to make. That is not an issue because anybody has the right to post. What is the issue is when there is a challenge / debate by anybody who does not agree or god forbid show a right wing tendency it should not be open season for making personal comments. That is not debating politics that is a word I will not use as I will be guilty of doing the same.

I would think that over the years most GN posters are aware of other posters humour, kindness and 'if involve themselves'. In posting on the politics thread, or indeed even lurking, have an idea of other political tendencies. I would think it is laughable to some that you say you did not know I tend to lean to the right of politics. I am sure they have read posts between ourselves that make it quite evident.

As for saying you don't understand why 'ORDINARY PEOPLE' vote Conservative is a comment that if I were to answer I would most certainly be making a personal comment to you of an unkind nature so I will leave it up to other GN's to assess what that says about your view.

Well plenty "ordinary" people must have voted conservative in the last election as how else did they get into power?

I thought this was a thread about the NHS. Sorry my mistake.

Fair point but if a post is directed to a named poster it would be rude not to reply!

If you read this thread alone there is link after link , post after post that refers to a political party 'of one colour or another'. If a post is political in it's origin and uses the words of a politically biased group/blog/association then it is hardly a surprise if the answer is political, after all that's all another poster has to work with.

Unfortunately the NHS can't be kept out of politics, because it depends on taxation and taxation is controlled by politicians?

On another point that has been raised, can someone define ordinary people for the purpose of categorising voters? Sounds like old-fashioned class warfare to me: roll on the twentieth century!