Advice needed for those who have had sons

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I wonder how things are with the rest of the family. There is a scenario with something known as "the scapegoat child" where one child becomes the focus for all the family problems and behaves accordingly. I am not saying this is happening here but it might be something to look at. Whatever happens I think your concern and care will help to see him through. I have three DSs and we had various problems as they grew up. But they do grow up! Oh and about diet, I remember a friend's son who had incredible reactions to certain food additives, I might have thought that this was just imagination, but I did witness one occasion when he was accidently fed something he was usually not permitted and the transformation from a normal quiet boy to a whirling dervish was incredible.

In many ways he sounds like GS1. He has been getting a lot of support at school and the autistic spectrum has been mentioned, although the waiting list for assessment is at least a year. It has been helpful though to realise that he is different and not just naughty.

Some positive contributions along with some wacky ones (gay? abused?) I hope you can sort the wheat from the chaff. The book ( The Explosive Child) sounds interesting and I would also consider investigating the Aspergers/ASD route.
Now this DOES sound wacky, but bear with me. A friend who has a son who has Aspergers also found out he has coeliac disease and since his diet was revised to exclude all gluten, his "tempers" or mood swings seem to have evened out.

He was probably quite happy keeping up the pretence of believing in Father Xmas. I can't understand why his mum bothered to talk to him about that.

And what are his looks, "handsome" or not, got to do with it? And for goodness sake leave out the "gay" bit. He's 12!

Does he do any after school activities? What is the sport he shares with his dad? Is it something they can do often? He needs plenty of outside interests.

Is there good pastoral support at school, or a young people's counselling service that the school can refer him to?

I think that often young people just need someone who is calm and non-judgmental to talk to. His behaviour doesn't necessarily mean he has Aspergers or depression (though it might) - it could just mean that there are things going on in his life that he finds difficult to handle and which he can't speak to family members about.

Just sent the family a book called The Explosive Child that was recommended to me - it has a linked website www.livesinthebalance.org/.

It may at least give them some new perspectives on the problem.

Thanks for all your replies and pms. It is clear that this is a common problem.

He's really only just stopped believing in Father Christmas and he's just gone to secondary school? Doesn't that seem a bit odd? Is he having someone on? I think I'd suspect bullying, especially as he's just started a new school. Could he be gay? Perhaps a little early to find out but it could be causing psychological problems. Handsome boys are not precluded from being gay, in fact, sometimes the opposite, and children can be cruel if one of their group appears 'different'. Poor lad, I'm sorry to hear of his problems.

Yes, rose I have seen that too.

THe mixture of being streetwise and yet very emotionally behind for his age is typical as well.My DGS goes from cool dude to 5 year old in the same 20 minutes.

He will also be able to explain how he feels to someone outside of the family, which sometimes helps.

I think the same as Hilda [my DGS is the same] and it sounds exactly like the boy you talk about Mishap. This problem won't go away.He needs to see the GP and probably CAMHS [ I know how you feel about CAMHS, me too, but needs must.] medication and careful handling and understanding are the only ways forward.

Mishap I've pm'd you

As I said earlier, he sounds just like an older version of our little Aspie. He has loads of friends, is very handsome and gets invited to every party going. The last birthday party he was invited to was at a bowling alley. My DD declined the invitation and explained GS's problems to the parent. She will only allow him to go to parties at the child's house, where the sensory stimuli will be less.

I think he did used to do karate but I think he may have stopped that now.

I do appreciate all your suggestions.

I do not think there is any bullying at school - he seems to have settled in very well. He has made lots of new friends, some of whom are within walking distance of his home (which is a flat by the way with mezzanine bedrooms - that is part of the problem), and he is starting to see them outside of school a bit.

He is very handsome indeed and very very good at sport - in fact HE is the cool dude on the block rather than being the also-ran. It may be that this is a hard position to feel he has to sustain and that this is one of his stressors.

He says he has a girlfriend at school, but he is pre-pubertal and in many ways very naive - he still believed in Father Christmas until his Mum made sure he knew the truth during last summer in preparation for secondary school. He is a funny mixture of little boy and cool dude - which is a bit teenager-like I realise.

I suppose the worrying thing is that this has been going on for so many years and maybe cannot simply be put down to his age - as he has been doing it at every age so far.

I hate to see them all sad and under stress.

Nfk Judo & Karate membership was the best money I have ever spent on our DSs & DGSs.

My DS got more sad and grumpy as he grew into teenagehood. (We backed onto overgrown woodland and when things got really bad he would take off into the wood with a small axe and give a tree hell.) I couldn't get to the bottom of it and I got very worried when he said he didn't want to live.

His teachers thought he was doing ok - jogging along in the middle of the class - and he had a close friend with his own problems and I learned later they were very supportive of each other.

He was useless at sports and games - couldn't run very fast - a bit on the short and chunky side (this changed in his mid-teens when he suddenly beanpoled), and eventually when he was about 12/13 I discovered he was being bullied at school. Nothing extreme, just generally being permenantly picked on.

So I sent him to judo classes - where no one knew him - and his confidence grew. He no longer avoided the boys who were picking on him, instead waited his moment and caught the ringleader. Apparently he flattened the lad against the wall and scared him rigid! It only took the once! After that he was much happier!

DS didn't consider that he was being bullied, just couldn't understand why no one liked him. He had friends at scouts, but they avoided him at school which left him confused. That with raging hormones....!

I don't know if this helps - just may be a possibility.

Mishap I have found over the years with my own DSs and DGSs that the ages between 12/15 are very hard for boys and take you to hell & back sometimes,is he a "young" 12 if so he may be finding it hard to ajust to senior school and is in the process of finding his "place" within the school year.I found that DS1 had no problems at all but DS2 found it hard to ajust to bigger boys being in his orbit he found it hard to cope with until he was about 13 then all slotted into place.
All my DGs have had outside activities a couple of nights a week coupled with homework so they had no time to contemplate what others had and they didn't, they where also close together in age,is there a big age gap in your GS and his siblings ?
I would tend to chat to the Pastoral Care at School and see if they can shed any light on things and don't worry this will not have any effect on his schooling or reports they have come across this kind of thing many times before and know which way to guide parents.

Sorry Mishap, I meant to say that when GS1 started school, (before diagnosis) his teacher, and the head both thought that he was an anxious, sad little boy!! He sometimes comes across like this at home but knowing him tells you that he is not. It is his difficulty with processing information and dealing with his senses. He will go off to his room and appear to be sad, but this is just while his brain assimilates all the information. He is soon back to his normal little self. My DD calls this his "time out" and will sometimes send him to his room when he appears to be getting over stimulated. On these occasions he has been known to trash his room. Afterwards he is asked to tidy it up again, and he usually does so with good grace as he knows he's been silly.
Sorry for going on so, but I hope this is helpful.

I agree they need professional advice. And gentle handling.

x post.
Off to read.

I dont think cramped home conditions help him.
Does he have his own distinct private space that he can go to if he wants to?
Even say a garden shed might help.
If he doesnt have space, it isnt going to be long before he stays away from home, maybe staying for longer at friends houses, staying longer in town centres etc.

Other thoughts.
Did he accept his siblings?
Does he have some thoughts, rightly or wrongly, that his mum doesnt love him? Perhaps she made a comment somewhere along the way that he took wrongly, or has stuck with him.

I do think he has low self esteem deep down.

I have just chatted with his mum on the phone.

She describes his behaviour as being very difficult from birth - with incessant screaming, violent tantrums as a toddler (which she can now see were over the top as she has other children to compare with), and on-going problems with temper control throughout his whole life.

She is beating herself up with guilt as the pregnancy was unexpected and she was on Prozac for several of the first weeks of pregnancy - and also admits to having got "wasted" a few times before she realised she was pregnant. She thinks that this, and the later pregnancy problems, have caused him to have "wiring faults" from birth. I have tried to reassure her and put that into perspective, as many mothers will have drunk alcohol and been on an anti-depressant in the early weeks without detriment to the baby. And as soon as she realised she was pregnant she went off the tablets and did all the right things.

I have suggested they should seek outside advice as to how to handle him, rather than dragging him along for tests initially. Hopefully there will be an educational psychologist who is attached to the school.

One thing is clear is that Mum thinks he is sad and needs gentle handling; but Dad thinks he should be punished - I have been clear that they need to pull together with the same strategies (which I think in the main they do) - but the underlying nature of the problem (naughty vs ill/sad) is a bone of contention and the child must be aware of that.

What a sad situation for them all.

He's the oldest child and has been tending to behave this way for 6 years? Is there anything that could have triggered it? He sounds deeply unhappy.
I really feel for you, but my only experience is that DDS was a very unhappy teenager with a short fuse, but not physically aggressive. Many years later she said she was terribly bullied at school- made me feel awful and very sad for ages. If only I'd known at the time.
Is is possible he's being bullied at school or on Facebook etc?

Are you absolutely sure you are not dealing with a boy with Aspergers syndrome? This boy sounds very like an older version of my 6year old GS, who is very bright and a lovely boy. He doesn't have many problems at school when things are going well. He did throw his lunch across the dining room when the quiche didn't taste like his mum's. He also peed all round the boys toilets when some other boys were teasing him. He has outbursts at home where he will kick, nip, scratch and hit whoever is in the firing line. I have been on the receiving end more than once! He was diagnosed with Aspergers in the summer and my DD has been given strategies for dealing with his behaviour at home which are very helpful. It took several visits to the GP to get a referral for him to be assessed but finally having a diagnosis was a relief.
Does he have any sensory problems? My GS never liked the wind or the sound of it and would cover his ears when he was very small. Now he cannot stand shopping malls etc and takes his ear defenders if it is going to be noisy.
I hope this longish post is helpful and you manage to sort him out. (I know you shouldn't have favourites, but this boy is mine).