Benefits and Bypasses.

At a rough sum, that is about £2 a kilo, greenfinch so they are luxury fruit compared to the little ones at 69p a kilo.

My point is that there are a lot of fruits and vegetables which are NOT expensive.

Elegran I guess my pears were not the most economical although they had loads of flesh on them and were virtually a meal in themselves. I can't remember the price per kilo but the one I have left weighs 300gr.so I guess the total weight was around 600gr.

I was adding on from POGS post.

You could add on from that, and say that a privatised health service will in fact help a minority of people to drastically improve their lifestyles.
It wont be good for most of the rest of the general population.

It doesn't say rich or poor, roseq.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/why-being-overweight-means-you-live-longer-the-way-scientists-twist-the-facts-10158229.html

To me both sides of the 'arguement' are raising valid points.

One side of the 'debate' is IMHO raising a serious question , should the NHS and the funding of the NHS/ Welfare payments continue Ad infinitum to those who are categorically NOT going to alter their lifestyle and expect continuing funding and care at an enormous cost to the tax payer who funds their lifestyle and taking valuable NHS care provision from others because of it. e.g what is the cost in money terms, welfare and NHS care if you don't stop smoking knowing you are going to have 'another' leg amputated or you are so obese you will be in receipt of Disability and other Welfare payments for life, continued care requirement from the NHS or you are an alcoholic , drug addict.

The other side of the 'debate' is to raise valid points re compassion and fair play, the fact there are many things we do that areare equally self inflicted but are deemed to be in a different type of category but none the less are self inflicted and therefore cannot be viewed differently. A fair point to raise, e.g nobody told you to climb the mountain that broke your back when you fell, nobody told you to play rugby that broke your neck, nobody told you to play hockey where you broke your arm. Yet they are self inflicted injuries that once again require funding from the tax payer for NHS care and in the worst degree Ad infinitum Welfare payments, so should these cases be classed as different?

For me I think there is a difference in a person on an hour by hour, daily basis committing themself to self destruction as opposed to somebody engaging in sport and having an accident.( I might not agree with myself on mountain climbing, potholing etc)
The irony is one group of people are killing themselves with full understanding of what they are doing, the other is trying to use sport as a measure to 'keep fit'. . Addiction is a terrible condition but some do take responsibility and turn their life around but they are those who will refuse help and even see it 'as their right' to demand care, which of course they obtain.

The NHS/Welfare costs are enormous to the tax payer but sadly the cost to those who took part, willingly, in the program are nothing by comparison. They all accepted they were at fault, they accepted their responsibility for their actions and all accepted they knew they were doing untold damage to their life, but apart from the woman with alcahol induced liver failure and the man who had the gastric band none of them were prepared to alter their lifestyle so it is fair to ask this:-

' At what point if an adult is not prepared to take responsibility for their lifestyle does it become nothing more than the state facilitating their self destruction , is that the right use of tax payer funding through the NHS/Welfare systems?

We are a compassionate country, we understand the difficulty of addiction, we will never turn away those who need help with care so I don't see things will ever change but if I am to be honest there are times when you have to give rise to the thought that compassion can also be a dangerous thing when it gives those in the most need permission to self destruct and we as a society are tantamount to aiding and abetting them.

What did your two pears weigh, Greenfinch ? My Lidl has fun-sized pears for 69p a kilo - the label is "Oaklands for Kids".

Fruit in season is far cheaper than manufactured snacks, you just have to avoid what has been flown in at vast expense out of season.

We were not fat as children, but we ate well. It takes knowledge of what is good food, and how to cook it, and the ability to resist advertising and peer pressure.

The mind boggles!

What if someone crashes their car whilst breaking the speed limit? Would we deny them ambulance and emergency treatment and just leave them there?

Having said that, I do see where the OP is coming from.

What about the rich obese? Does the report mention them?
Otherwise it is stereotyping a section of society.

At least the poor obese won't be costing the NHS extra for dementia according to the latest report - so not all bad then!

And exactly what I said - they need help.

Just so Eloethan, good post

Too many people associate healthy food with fashionable 'super' foods.

As Ana says basic food stuffs like root vegetables, brassicas etc etc are not expensive. Cookery books can be bought very cheaply in Charity shops. With sensible and careful shopping and cooking a family can eat far more cheaply eating healthily than living on processed meals and take-aways.

Healthy food is not as expensive as junk food and certainly not as expensive as the take-aways we see consumed in these documentaries.
I was horrified to hear the gentleman, having a gastric band fitted, if he could eat bacon sandwiches after the operation. The Bariatric surgeon works at our local hospital and you have to hand it to him he believes that these operations do save the NHS money. Hopefully he is right.

Pears? If someone's on a limited budget they're not going to be spending £1.22 on a couple of those if they've got any sense.

I meant basics such as potatoes, carrots, onions, cauliflower, bananas and apples, not overpriced unnecessary items.

I bought 2 large pears from Lidl yesterday. They were 61p each. That wouldn't have gone far for a family of 4 but I could have bought a large loaf or several packets of biscuits for the same price which would have filled them up but been far less healthy.

I don't agree that healthy food is more expensive.

A very good post Eleothan.You have presented a balanced and objective viewpoint with clear arguments that can surely be understood by all .It is far too easy to be black and white and suggest that parents of those suffering from anorexia do more to help than the parents of those who are obese. Anorexia I believe is often associated with middle class families whereas obesity is often associated with people who cannot afford to buy the more expensive healthy food. The issues are complex and both groups need help.

There are a number of reasons why some parents allow their children to overeat or to eat food that is full of calories but which may well not be particularly nutritious.

These include:

That is the sort of diet they had during their own childhoods (and they may be overweight themselves).

They may have grown up seeing food as a comfort or a reward.

They may feel that denying a child extra helpings is being unkind or depriving it of love.

They may not fully understand what a balanced diet is.

They may be eating too much convenience/fast food because they have limited cooking skills.

Equally, there are a number of reasons why some children are anorexic, including:

Genuine concerns about a child's diet have led to mealtimes increasingly becoming a "power struggle".

Parents are over-controlling and children feel that denying themselves food is the only way for them to maintain some control.

There are underlying problems in the family that cause stressful mealtimes.

Parents who constantly worry about their weight and go on diets, thus creating anxiety about obesity.

However, the issue of eating disorders is, as someone else said, a very complex one and is likely to include societal factors (e.g. the intense marketing and wide availability of unhealthy foods - which are often presented as being "healthy", and the introduction in the 60's (I think) of the concept of between-meals "snacks"), and may also include certain genetic factors.

Even if parents exacerbate the problem, I find it difficult to believe that the majority of them don't care that their children's health is at risk and I feel the "blame game" is not very helpful. I don't suppose there are many (if any) parents who can honestly say their parenting was without fault.

What is the equivalent of dyslexia with numbers?
I think I must have it.

Or if it is depression or someone feeling 'depressed' because of circumstances.
Perhaps it is something that can never be calculated.

Given the record on treatment for mental health I have little trust in statistics on just how many people suffer with any form of depression

Somewhere around 25-33% of the general population get depression.
If obese people are statisically more likely to get depressed by 25% more than the general population, then roughly
1/4 of 30 is 7.
7 + 30 = 37%
Or even taking the 33% + 1/4 of 33 is 8
8 + 33 = 41%

ie not even 50%.

I really can't follow the logic of your statistics soon.What are you actually saying ?

I didn't mean that at all Greenfinch - you have misconstrued what I said.

I meant that parents of anorexic children, from what I have seen and read, do their utmost to help their child to get well and overcome it, not always successfully.However, in many cases where a daughter/relative is obese - which I stated quite clearly also requires help - the state and relatives collude by bringing food to the bed of someone who cannot move due to their obesity. They are killing with kindness and a different type of help is needed rather than continually feeding with junk food.
I do realise that both are eating disorders but the attitude of family seems quite different in the two scenarios in many cases.

no different to saying eating like a pig well, I did eat the cake quite nicely with a fork anniebach, I didn't stick my snout into the plate. However, I didn't need it and I wasn't hungry so I was 'stuffing my face'. Just an expression!