Benefits and Bypasses.

This will not end well ....

The thread GrannyT or the effect on the NHS???

Ok - stupid idiot mountaineer falls off mountain, squash player has eye injury, rugby player breaks neck ..... all chose to get involved in these activities.....
And back to your original examples, would you just leave them to sfter and die?

Suffer

No I wouidn't, but I would be well p'd off if they didn't learn from their mistake and grab their second chance with both hands and make the necessary life style changes to improve their situation. There only appeared to be one chap on last night's programme who was trying to help himself.

But it's never that simple is it? I wish people could live healthier lives and believe there is much that could be done at a macro and micro level to facilitate this but in the meantime, I'm just glad I live in a country with a health care system where access is mainly based on need self inflicted or otherwise . Of all the things that piss me ff, this is so not on my list

Many people do not learn from their mistakes. It has always been thus. There will always be some who will be reliant on whatever state provision there is.

Easy to view these illnesses as self inflicted or as "addictions" or "illnesses".
That is focussing on the individual, whether they are seen as self-indulgent or sick.
Or we can take a step back and look at the part played by:

Tobacco companies
Companies that make and sell alcohol
Advertising and marketing of "junk food"
Social pressures from others "everyone is doing it"
or even the education system that does not equip individuals to make better choices.

The really difficult thing is to see what can be done about it.

I think we have to live and let live - the information is out there, but not everyone takes note of it - or is able to.

We cannot start a hierarchy of worthiness to receive the benefits of the NHS - how would you do it? Idiots who climb mountains - do they qualify? People who ride motorbikes? People who sail? ...............

I am enjoying the TV programme "GPs Behind Closed Doors" - they approach each patient thoughtfully and respectfully even when their lifestyles fall short of the ideal.

JessM's point is of course well made.

I sometimes wonder if the safety net provided by the NHS is counterproductive in some ways. Would people take more care of themselves if they knew there was a limit to what the NHS would provide?? The young lad in last night's prog had an array of asthma/chest medication but his consultant firmly told him all that was wrong with him was smoking. His response? He's just going to carry on smoking because he enjoys it. Cue years of NHS treatment/cost. We've just had friends lose 17 year old daughter to leukaemia, how much better would it be to spend money on leukaemia research? NHS is already starting to prioritise treatment options based on age, given the increasing demands of an increasingly elderly population this is only going to become more common.

Oh dear what is an what isn't self inflicted?

I just had a piece of cake when I could have had a plum.
I sometimes exceed the speed limit when driving.
I worry about all kinds of things when I could just chill out.
I had children knowing it was risky for me.
I play golf when I know my arthritic back doesn't like it.
When I worked I lifted patients that were too heavy for me and damaged my back.
I wore shoes that were bad for my feet.
I have often had more glasses of wine than recommended.
I write things on here that I think may get a backlash and then I'm upset and have sleepless nights.
Sometimes I 'forget' to take my medication.

Sounds like I'm a real risk taker doesn't it.

This subject is a dangerous minefield. Some cancers are self-inflicted but who is to judge? What about babies whose mothers smoked and drank when they were pregnant ?Should treatment be unavailable to them? Nobody deliberately makes themselves ill. There is always a medical, social or emotional explanation. Would you leave an overdose victim to die? And some illnesses are more "acceptable" than others eg physical illnesses generally command more sympathy than mental health problems.
The OP mentioned obesity which always gets a bad press though there may be a genuine reason for it either physical or emotional. Anorexia is much more sympathetically regarded .Why?
I didn't see the programme mentioned but we need to be very wary of these benefit fraud programmes in the run-up to the election. Could there be a hidden agenda?

I totally 'get' that people gain weight/smoke/drink for all sorts of reasons but I watched something last year about people waiting for gastric bypasses etc. There were two sisters on it sitting in their kitchen stuffing their faces and joking about being 'on the list for a bypass and couldn't wait'. I know it's hard, I could do with losing a few pounds myself and struggle, but I try. When I hear of people having surgery/boob jobs on the NHS because they are depressed it makes me cross. When all my hair fell out a few years ago, there was no help for me and I was suicidal after other awful events in my life, it was the final straw. No one (apart from family) cared. I was told 'get a wig'. My sympathy levels are low with SOME of these people.

There are risks inherent in life and there are self imposed risks.
I'm not going to comment any further as I don't want another unpleasant thread to develop.

Well - it doesn't seem to work that way in America. Those with the worst health have the worst health care and the link is poverty. I think it would be impossible to get some people to appreciate the long term damage they are doing to their health. And if limits were imposed, what on earth would you do when those limits were reached? Do what they do in Ametica and let them go untreated? And the a NHS is far more than a safety net - it's a foundation of a decent society. What would you do about a drunken driver pulled from a car crash whose treatment and rehab will cost hundreds of thousands?

Unpleasant thread = people disagreeing with OP

What is it with GN that some people don't want to argue?

Poor people in American use the emergency room hospitals. Taking time away from urgent care for seriously ill or injured. Luckily they are triaged. It's not a good answer for chronic illness that need long term treatment.The cost is absorbed by passing on to paying insurances and other people that can pay.iIt's not fair..increases costs for all.What can you do? you can't get blood out of a turnip or put them in debters prison. Yet to see if Obama care really will make a difference. I will say im glad to have affordable health insurance from Obamacare since my husband retired.

Oh. I see. You enjoy arguing GrannyTwice.

I expect you could start a thread, and invite anyone who wants to argue with you onto it?
That is probably not against the rules so long as you make it clear what you are doing.

Many of us on GN have only known the NHS - the health of the poor before the NHS was heartbreakingly bad. I remember seeing a programme on the creation of the NHS - a retired GP said he could hardly believe the terrible problems that come to him once it was available. He was almost in tears as he spoke of women who had had multiple pregnancies with very poor care coming to him with prolapsed wombs and all that went with that. I'm not romantic about the NHS but it's a bit like democracy - all the other systems are worse

Of course I do soon - on the appropriate threads. I rather thought you did as well < sly dig in ribs, wink, wink>

Oohhh didn't realise we had