Hospital on BBC 2

Lack of beds the reason. Yes I saw it - felt sorry for those involved, consultants, staff and patients

We watched but it turned in to a traumatic experience for us as St Mary's was the hospital that OH was rushed to 18 mths ago with the exact same thing as that lady from Norfolk a ruptured Aortic Aneurysm. It gave OH an inkling of what happened that night and what we both went through he was shocked watching the surgery, it brought it all back so clearly.

I thought it was brilliant however and just showed it 'how it is' I was very sorry read about that poor man who had the successful Cancer surgery only to die a few weeks later. Very brave of his family to allow it to be included.

Going to watch some time this week.

OMG I'm sorry for the spoiler for anyone who hasn't watched it yet.

Tanith - so glad that your OH came through such a serious illness.

Goodness knows what the answer is to this mess - getting patients out of beds by improving social care (I wish!) does not solve the absence of intensive care beds.

Thanks Luckygirl and thanks to our wonderful NHS without whom/which he would not be here for sure.

If I may be so bold as to suggest viewing 2 other excellent series recently aired.

'Ambulance' on BBC

'999 What's Your Emergency' Channel 4.

They too are eye openers as they cover not only the stress and strain on the NHS but the waste and non productive time of the NHS staff due to various forms of idiocy by the public .

It showed how complicated the situation is. ICU beds are expensive, so the hospital trust needs to be absolutely sure they're needed and balance that against wasted staff resources, when they sit around twiddling their thumbs.

I am glad that I am not in charge of the NHS!

Staff who man the operating theatres at night may not have an emergency come in at all but at other times will be rushed off their feet.

From what I understand that's the problem. The recommendation is that they should run at over 85% capacity, but most are well over that. Bottlenecks in the system build up, as in yesterday's 'Hospital', if they are running at full capacity. That's why it might seem as though there are beds on a ward, but it's dangerous to admit somebody, if there aren't spaces in the recovery room or a high dependency bed might be needed. Bed flow in a large hospital is a complex business. There's something called 'queuing theory'. Hospitals these days are loads more efficient than they used to be.

The fact that even more elective surgery isn't postponed or more people don't die on trolleys or in ambulances is a credit to the resourcefulness of NHS hospitals - and still they get it in the neck!

What did people think about last night's episode. It did seem enormously risky to do that invasive heart procedure on a man of 98 - and the outcome was so poor. His aim was to be able to get back to walking well, but now his mobility is likely to be dodgy for neurological reasons following the3 stroke during the procedure.

This is not an ageist comment - but realistically the likelihood of complications in someone of that great age is much higher. I was surprised that they made the decision to go ahead. The man who had had the stroke was advised against invasive surgery and he was much younger. He was to have the same procedure as the 98 year old had following the disaster during his heart op.

I am so glad that it is no me making these decisions.

"not"

I thought the 98-year-old was recovering well - the surgeon removed the blood clot which had caused his stroke and he appeared to be fine at the end although we weren't told whether he was likely to be back walking any time soon.

The other man didn't look at all fit and there must have been good reason for advising him not to have the surgery. I thought they'd actually left the decision to him, and he and his wife had decided against it.

It must be very difficult for NHS staff to decide on the criteria for certain procedures, I agree.

My father had a Pacemaker fitted at the age of 94.

One comment stood out to me. One of the doctors of a mature age said that when he was doing his training ' 65 year olds ' were considered as a cut off point, something like that I cannot be assured of his actual phrasing.

It makes you think about the point continually being raised 'We are living longer' and the pressures put on the health service. I was surprised however at 65.

I only caught the end of the news at lunch-time but I think gransnetters will be reassured by Jeremy Hunt's latest statement:

It's wrong to suggest to people that these profound challenges such as we face with an ageing population are ones where there is a silver bullet that can solve the problem overnight.

so no enforced euthanasia as yet.

Yes, the 98 year old was recovering well and looked to be having a better quality of life than before his operation despite the removal of the thrombosis.

It was not possible to tell from the sight of hm sitting by his hospital bed how much of a recovery he had made from the stroke. It would seem unlikely that his initial aim of being able to go for long walks would be achieved.

We saw him at home at the end of the programme, surely? And no, of course we couldn't tell exactly how fit he was - are you saying he shouldn't have had the operations because of his age? Or that it was a waste of NHS money to treat him?

It was a very risky decision and he was lucky to survive. I am not sure I would want a 98 year old parent of mine undergoing such a serious procedure.

The 98 year old appeared to be enjoying a better quality of life after his new heart valve and the thrombolectomy, he was clearly a very positive person. Decisions on treatment are probably taken case by case and taking other conditions into consideration.

Yes, there was an update at the end of the programme and he was on track to start walking again.

I found the onviously extremely close relationship between him and his grandaughter very moving.

Regarding the comment by one of the doctor's about 65 being regarded as elderly, I worked in the NHS all my life, when I was a young student in the late sixtes/early seventies the geriatric unit was where anyone with medical problems, over the age of 65 went !! If they needed a surgical procedure, they had it in the surgical unit, but anything other than surgery they were seen as " geriatrics" Seems incredible nowadays. Im at that age range and the thought of being admitted to a geriatric unit ........................... I've just been out for lunch with friends. gone for a three mile walk, have yoga tonight and babysitting tomorrow so wouldnt consider myself a geriatric just yet. Its interesting how as our life expectancy increases, and we are more health aware, it brings it s own problems with waiting lists and an ageing population. Thirty odd years ago, people holding down busy active fulfilling and long lives obviously wasn't on the radar.