When 'guidelines' are counter-productive

There was never any new evidence behind the "no alcohol at all" advice. The advisers just thought that women were too stupid to understand the word "moderate"

I'm sure my mother didn't stop drinking (or smoking) when pregnant with me*. But we children of the 50s and early 60s are the most proliferous, so it can't have done all that much harm.

And we baby boomers, most of whom were all so careful with not drinking etc during pregnancy, have produced a generation of people who suffer from all sorts of allergies and things.

(I expect that those blatant generalisations will throw some cats amongst some pigeons.)

*Mind you, even a hundred years ago, sitting in a hot bath with a bottle of gin was the accepted way of terminating a pregnancy.

I think you make a good point janeainsworth when I had my son I didn't know I was pregnant. I did everything wrong that any pregnant woman would be told not to do. I had no anti-natal care whatsoever, I drank (never smoked) and ate crap. He was born perfectly fit and healthy although small at under 5 pounds but was a lovely contented baby. Moving on 5 years I had my DD. I knew I was pregnant form the "get go" and did everything "by the book". My DD was born again very small (5 pounds) and was the most winging, screaming horrible baby any could ever have. I would have happily thrown her and myself off the nearest tall building just to get peace from her incessant crying.

gilly
I remember mrA threatening to throw DS (aged 10 days) out of the window if he didn't shut up

Is it really such a hardship to stop drinking during pregnancy just in case it may cause harm? Whether there is evidence or not that it may cause harm its only a few months after all.
I'm a baby boomer but I don't remember ever being told that smoking and drinking were harmful to my baby 'JackyB' maybe it passed me by somehow.

tanith I had a daily glass of milk mixed with Guinness when I was expecting DS.

I think the point is that som

I drank and smoked with my eldest two because no one said it was bad...even on the maternity wards each bedside cabinet had an ashtray..and each p.m we were given a bottle of Guinness....they weighed in at 10lb3oz and 9lb10oz.....

lol baby weight not guinness bottle weight ??

I think the point with all these guidelines is not that they apply to every individual, but that if you drink/smoke during pregnancy you're more likely to have problems.

We've all heard of/know people who smoked like chimneys and died at 90 but there are far more heavy smokers who have died earlier than they would have done from smoking-related diseases.

Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) is the most common, non-genetic cause of learning disability in the UK (Plant, 1985; Plant et al., 1999; Autti-Ramo, 2002; British Medical Association, 2007; May and Gossage, 2001; Sampson et al., 1997). This condition is preventable. Research suggests that more than 7,000 babies are born every year in the UK with Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder.

I worked with a teacher who stopped drinking at 8 weeks when her pregnancy was confirmed. Her son was born with FASD.

It's the luck of the draw.....or in this case the bad luck.

It's a bit like saying "I cross the road every day and I've never been knocked down" when in fact about 60 people are injured every day on UK roads.

I think there are confusing messages about FASD anya.
On the one hand, it's thought that it occurs only if 4 or more units a day are consumed. In the other, it's said there's no safe alcohol dose.
It's a bit like exposure to X-rays - up to a certain exposure, it is said to be 'safe'. But a single exposure can be the tipping point and initiate the development of a cancer. That's why X-ray exposure is limited to as little as reasonably practicable.
I think the concern expressed in the article is about women who have had abortions because they have drunk alcohol, not realising they were pregnant, or who have cut out all social activity because they couldn't drink.
Both reactions seem bizarre to me, but at the same time I think there should be good evidence for any guidelines which seek to restrict people's daily activity.

If there's any chance that restricting 'people's daily activity' might cause a child to have their future put at risk then I don't agree the evidence needs to be that strong Jane.

What's the hardship in giving up drinking for the duration of a pregnancy or, better still, if you're trying to get pregnant.

I think what some people don't realise too us that children who suffer from FASD also suffer physical facial abnormalities. We had a family in my last school where all three boys were distinctive by these abnormalities

The advice I was given in 1980 when expecting DD1 was that a glass or two of wine a week wouldn't do any harm, but the information was definitely out there re smoking and excessive alcohol being harmful.

And yes, we were given a bottle of stout every evening on the post-natal ward, but only if breastfeeding. I mentioned this on another forum and was met with scepticism till they realised I was Northern.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/18/warning-pregnant-women-over-dangers-of-alcohol-goes-too-far-experts-say?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=226515&subid=11289830&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
Sorry just realised the first link didn't work.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/18/pregnant-women-ban-drinking-facts-scientific-evidence?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&ut
m_term=226701&subid=11289830&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

Here's another article.
'Giving mothers-to-be advice with no scientific basis is patronising and coercive. Women have the right to see the evidence and make their own decisions'

My mother says she was given stout on the postnatal ward when breastfeeding! How times change.

Going off thread a tiny bit and apologies for poor grammar but I really don't know how to put the question well. Anyway here goes.....

I am now wondering how much you can be tricked into suffering morning sickness etc, in pregnancy? How we can unknowingly let ourselves BE pregnant?

Not knowing I was pregnant with my son, I developed no symptoms at all. I did everything I shouldn't do (except smoking) and I suffered no sickness, no other symptoms and I had no baby bump. I wore my same clothes as I always did. Stood up on the crammed bus. He was born small but otherwise fine.

Knowing I was pregnant with my daughter I suffered sickness and horrible irritable legs. I had heartburn and quite a large bump together with extra fat. My boobs ached.

Is it possible that even just knowing you are pregnant can trick you into being unwell?

I understand what you're saying gilly - mind over matter?

In my case I can honestly say that that didn't apply - with both pregnancies almost from the minute of conception I was overwhelmingly nauseous/vomiting on and off for most of the day and night, and this continued till about 16 weeks when it just disappeared. Entirely hormonal and out of my control.

Unfortunately my appetite and ability to eat came back with a vengeance and I put on loads of weight!

Yes I suppose that sums it up River thank you. Mind over matter.

I see what you mean, gillybob and I guess some of the symptoms may well be influenced by mind over matter. I conceived my second child when still breastfeeding the first, so I'd had no periods to miss, I was still pretty curvy and the boobs couldn't have ached any more than they already did! But there was absolutely no mistaking the violent heave my stomach gave when I caught the smell of a glass of single malt whisky my friend had just poured for me.

Sometimes the gender of the expected baby can determine whether you are sick or not. My first baby, a girl, I had morning, noon and evening sickness throughout the nine months. Pregnancy number two, I was not sick at all not even queasy and it was a big bouncing boy.

My daughter and I both had girls (twins in her case!). No morning sickness at all.

For both the mother and father to lay off the booze and fags for a year* when planning to have a baby makes a lot of sense.

For us, as a result of our first pregnancy, we gave up smoking altogether.

And we now imbibe fewer than 2 units a month.

*three months before for better sperm.