NHS

"The total cost of National Health Service compulsory redundancies and ‘other departures’ since 2011-12 to 2012-13 and the total cost of NHS redundancies, both compulsory and voluntary, from 2013-14 is as follows:

Year

Total cost (£000s)

2011-12

417,290

2012-13

429,702

2013-14

142,064

2014-15

144,419

2015-16

89,370

2016-17

64,725

Years 2011-12 and 2012-13 include NHS trusts, NHS foundation trusts, primary care trusts and strategic health authorities.

Years 2013-14 to 2016-17 include NHS trusts, NHS foundation trusts, NHS England and clinical commissioning groups. Clinical commissioning group data is consolidated with NHS England data and cannot be disaggregated.

‘Other departures’ include voluntary redundancies, as well as the following categories of exit package payments:

- mutually agreed resignations contractual costs;

- early retirements in the efficiency of the service contractual costs;

- contractual payments in lieu of notice;

- exit payments following employment tribunals or court orders; and

- non-contractual payments requiring HM Treasury approval."

This is a response to a FOI request about NHS redundancies since 2010.
Not only do we have a crisis in staffing, but we have paid out over a billion in redundancy payments.
Seems wrong to me, somehow.

Can't wait to see this on The Last Leg tonight.

They are bound to gently tease Hunt.

Fullfact has decided to check Hunt's facts on mental health which he argued with Ralph Little about.

fullfact.org/health/mental-health-jeremy-hunt-ralf-little/

I hadn't realised that Ralph Little was studying at Medical School before he became an actor.

Yes it is Deedaa.
I’ve seen Adam Kay perform several times as Amateur Transplants, he’s very funny and a talented musician, but I think he would have been a wonderful doctor too.

It's a wonderful book isn't it? Very funny in parts, but you wonder how any of them keep going. The case that caused his resignation struck a chord because DD's best friend was diagnosed beforehand but still nearly died during the delivery.

I see Jeremy Hunt has finally admitted there is a problem with GPs sonow we can really start worrying!

misswoosie medical and dental students don’t receive bursaries.
I agree with GillT57 anyone whose training is paid by the tax payer should give back 7 years full time or equivalent. If they don't do this they should have to repay their loan
Medical students do have to repay their loans.

It takes at least 10 years, usually more, after the 6 years as a medical student, to qualify as a consultant and be able to do private work. During this time, the junior doctors have received training, but the NHS has had their labour in the cheap. Any other employer would be regarded as exploiting its workforce. Oh and don’t forget the £60K+ debt that medical students incur during their university years.
Anyone who doubts that junior doctors more than repay their ‘debt’ to society should read Adam Kay’s book ‘This is Going to Hurt’.
It is marketed as being hilariously funny but it is a tragic story of a young person’s ideals being destroyed by an inhumane system.
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XWDJRGS/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1&tag=gransnetforum-21

So why are you saying you get tired of people blaming the government for the state of the NHS?
The government decides how much money to give the NHS.
Since 2010 the extra amount given has been less than the rate of inflation. Therefore it's been a real cut in finance when costs have been rising.
Hunt knows that, as did Lansley before him.

Nurses still get bursaries in Scotland

maryeliza54- I also said that nurses didn't get a bursary. I get rather tired of people blaming this gov't for the state of the NHS when clearly NHS needs to take some (quite a lot) responsibility for the state of the NHS. Part of the problem is where the money gets spent and the fact that the system isn't efficient. From everything I've seen recently I think we need to start by going back to the "basics" of medicine and nursing. There's a reason pain management, pressure area care, hydration and complications of immobility were drummed into me during my "archaic and task based" certificate in nursing education way back in the 1980's! I was a nurse for 27 years, latterly a nurse practitioner in acute care, and for the past 20 years at least governments and the NHS have shafted nurses. Agenda for change was simply a way to ensure that in the long run nurses, as the largest professional group in the NHS, cost less money. Whenever the cry is "we/you can't do that anymore" or "we have to start monitoring/ auditing/assessing/recording/collecting........" the nurses get lumbered with additional tasks or roles or paperwork. Hence more nurses opting for a lower pension and early retirement and some of the best ones going down other avenues, going abroad or changing career. As for the work experience part of a nursing degree being funded by the NHS, that's a tad misleading methinks. The students provide hands on clinical care to patients and their mentor in the clinical area is a nurse who has to juggle training the student, ensuring they meet their learning outcomes and doing their report alongside caring for their own caseload of patients and maybe being in charge of the ward as well. They don't get protected time to teach and a ward that has student nurses doesn't have a higher nurse to patient ratio.

But this is GN - why let the facts get in the way of a good story? It drives me crackers the number f times this happens. That’s why I posted the link - but links as we know are often mocked

My dd is in her intercalated year of medicine. She has received no bursaries and I am not aware there are any available.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/17/nurses-homeless-britain-housing-costs

This is appalling.

You said medical and dental students get bursaries - that statement as it stands is worthy of Jeremy Hunt in its misleading incompleteness

What was the problem with my post? As I said-nursing students no longer qualify for NHS bursaries

www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/career-planning/study-and-training/considering-or-university/financial-support-university/funding-through-nhs/financial-support-medical-and-dental-2

This is a tad more accurate methinks

Do medical and dental students get burseries

Iam64- actually, up until August this year, student nurses got NHS bursaries, as did dental and medical students and (I believe)dental hygienists and therapists. From August this year people starting a nursing degree no longer get the NHS bursary whilst medical and dental students continue to receive them. This is despite the fact that between Aug '16 and August '17 the number of nurses and health visitors (WTE) employed in NHS hospital and community health services fell by 0.5% whilst the number of Consultants increased by 3.6%.

1968 not 78! It’s my 50 year reunion next year!

I qualified in 1978 then spent 10years in general practice in the days when we worked all hours including nights and weekends and also did housecalls. No one waited for an appointment more than the next day.
I left (having had 2 children in the meantime with only 6-8 Weeks maternity leave) to join the department of social security dealing with benefits. I worked for them full time until I had to retire due to I’ll health. I still work part time although I’ll probab retire next March as I’m 73.
I think the country has had good value out of me.

In the early 70s I did a PGCE and subsequently spent 3 years doing VSO as a teacher; I have never taught in England, but always felt that my training was part of the overseas aid program.

Really interest facts Miss W.

In the 1950's- 70's a higher percentage of women didn't work and there were fewer women in the professions. If women did work, then a lot gave up when they had their children. Some returned to work once their children were older whilst others didn't. Many who did return had to take jobs that were at lower pay and seniority because their was little provision for part time working or job sharing. In the 90's we saw a shift away from this, especially in the NHS and other public services because they suddenly realised that we were short on some professions eg GP's and nurses. There were more opportunities to work part time and job share, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside again. You only have to look at the number of nurseries and the fact that most hospitals now have them to realise that a lot more women are working. It's just not affordable for families to live on one wage and unemployment is higher, so women more and more may be the main earner. Unfortunately nurses often end up paying out so much for childcare that they're taking home a pathetic amount of money. At least now there's the new childcare payment system, but when I was a new mother in the mid 90's almost half of my take home pay as a nurse went on childcare. I feel that a lot of what GP's do could be done by Advanced nurse practitioners. They're a lot cheaper and more thorough in a lot of cases. Regarding Doctors paying back their student loans their loans are for 5 years as opposed to 3 for a nursing degree and actually a Band 5 nurse starts on just above the earnings threshold for repayment of loans, but of course has nowhere near the earning potential of a GP! It takes a nurse about 10 years minimum to earn the same as an F2 (2nd year training) doctor and the average nursing salary is around £30,000 per year. Interesting fact . There are only 6 nurses (incuding health visitors) for every concultant working in the NHS. 7 years ago there were around 10. Nice to know where the money goes.

www.crowdjustice.com/case/jr4nhs-round2/

Still true, Wilma. Not many people have heard about STPs either.
We are going to lose our NHS free at the point of use because, whatever he said in that hour-long video, Hunt is a serial liar.
The problem is that the NHS has always been there in the background as a safety net, and people do not think about what is happening to it unless it affects them and their families.

When I brought up Accountable Care Organisations (ACOs) on another thread it was clear virtually nobody had heard of them. Brexit is dominating the news and major decisions are being taken about the NHS which will not receive parliamentary scrutiny. This was part of my post on the other thread Labour Supporters May Be Ignorant -

From article in The Independent 3rd November 2017 about the proposals to restructure the NHS by introducing Accountable Care Organisations (ACOs)

Legal action is being taken against Jeremy Hunt and the Department of Health over their proposals to restructure the NHS, The Independent can reveal. Plans have been tabled to convert the NHS into a public/private enterprise, which critics say is based upon the US private health insurance-based system. Senior health professionals and campaigners have now come together to take legal action and demand a judicial review, to ensure full parliamentary scrutiny of the proposals.