Independent living?!

That's exactly how my friend describes her day as a carer (minus the motorbike!)
If someone is wet and soiled when she goes in, or is unwell, it all takes time she hasn't got to spare, and she spends all day running behind time.

A male friend of mine has just started in the caring profession rather late in life, but I think because of that and having a bit more 'life experience' then he will be rather good at it .... however, he starts at say 7am town, does his 20 minutes (!) breakfast and medication and dressing probably, but then has to be at his next job at 7.20am which is 7 miles away in the next town! It is impossible, and who loses out? Now he does have a very fast motorbike but that imposes other issues like H&S etc .... someone HAS to miss out, in fact they all do - he does because he has no time to form any rapport with any of his clients who quite frankly may not see anyone else all day until bedtime, so his job is unfulfilling, he doesn't get paid travelling time either, and according to Google Maps it takes 18 mins to get between towns and that is on a normal day without traffic; his clients are definitely losing out, either one gets nowhere near his or her allotted time or he is late for their call, and is of course then late all day! Of course, he is also scheduled to start in town 1, then go to town 2, back to 1 again and then back once more for another visit!! Yet SS still pay these money grabbing companies to do caring for them on their behalf with presumably our taxes? Unreal ....

I can understand you feeling as you do but people who live in rented accommodation haven’t necessarily “bummed around all their life” lottagelady .

Yes NHS and social care should be one and the same but I’m still not sure where all the additional money is supposed to come from though? Considering retired people stop paying NI (no matter how high their income) and someone on minimum wage with a family to keep will be paying NI, has anyone got any ideas for a fair system? Really?

annesixty
May I point out that carers are not allowed to lift anyone who falls. They must phone the ambulance service.

I think that having a live-in carer would be idea for those wishing to stay in their homes, provided they had a spare room.
This would cost in the region of £500 pw if done privately. There would need to be two on a rota for night and day but the cost would be more for people with dementia.
Some families can cover the costs or some equity taken out of the property. The only thing not dealt with by carers should be the money which could be administered by a designated family member with PoA.

*elderly

It's commendable that people like the OP care enough about their community to note these things. I do hope that her neighbour now gets suitable care but bureaucracy and a lack of coordination between agencies is so dire that it may take some time. Meanwhile, the elderley and vulnerable are left to fend for themselves. We've all heard the 'lessons will be/have been learned' spiel a million times but sadly, not much changes.
Thanks to the OP for putting the thread on here. Forewarned is forearmed, as they say.

Gillybob - they already do put charges on property until after death - that is precisely what they are doing to me at the moment! I became unable to work about 10 years ago and was receiving Support for Mortgage Interest until today .... as from tomorrow it becomes a loan payable when I peg it! So you can bum around all your life and get free housing, or if you are renting and become ill you'll get free housing, but if you have the audacity to have earned enough to purchase your own property with a mortgage, then you can get stuffed and pay it all back! They did send out a leaflet explaining what was going to happen and one of their options was to "Ask family and friends to pay it for you" ..... I wish! I have also just done my LPA, another thing that is money for old rope for Solicitors and Govt Depts that has recently seemed to have cropped up too. (or is it just because I am getting older?)

Care will not get any better until the NHS and Social Care are under one banner and they stop arguing over who is going to pay for it.

Of course the Govt is trying at the moment to run our NHS into the ground so that the only way up will be to sell it off to their rich pals in business and Parliament itself - It does makes you wonder how many MP's have their hands in Private Healthcare or the Health Insurance racket at the moment? It will get so bad that the great unwashed (that's us by the way) will agree to anything ...... bad times ahead

I think we all need to think about this ourselves. I have seen friends leave it too late and I have taken a deep breath and am downsizing to a two bed ground floor flat. No steps, easy access. My family are delighted and helpful. The downsizing is hell but less hell I know that what you've all discribed. Staying in the family home is the easy option until it's too late. If we all lived in small villages surrounded by family it would be easy, but we don't. You who are coping with elderly relatives or friends are all angels and should be well and truly appreciated by those you are helping, but I fear too often you are not.

I was just thinking that, too.
Everywhere should have places like that, where people could nip in for a cuppa, and mix with the people who live there.
It would do so much good for everyone.

My neighbour doesn't have the presence of mind to refuse a male carer. She's not really 'with it' any more so is just frightened and doesn't know she could refuse. None of us has the authority to say no on her behalf. I suppose it's its up to her neice but she lives 100s, of miles away and can't visit often.
I must say the assisted living complex Granny3rose mentioned sounds very good to me. Nothing like that round here unfortunately. I expect there will be an increase in this sort of provision though.

Don't forget that we olduns paid the taxes that paid for the services to bring up the younguns so it is fair that they pay the taxes that look after us. Furthermore, we are still paying tax whether it's direct or indirect and pensions are taxable as well! We're not getting something for nothing.

Regards males giving inimate care ,it can be refused.

The two care companys that I have first hand knowledge of pay their staff about half of what the client pays them. The staff don't get mileage and they also are'nt given travelling time between clients, and quite often had to be in another village for their next client, and then back to the first village again.I never did get my head round their rotas.

Lazigirl ,I could'nt have put it better.

All this is very familiar to me, neighbours on both sides of me have been down this road.Sadly they cannot be made to go into care however much it is needed. I had this for three years with one neighbour and then for another three on the other side.Constant phone calls at all hours of the day and night,also calls from their 'careline' as I was number one one their button.b

How sad for your elderly neighbour. I hope that somehow something gets sorted out for her.

After my mum died my dad was sensible enough to buy an assisted living flat - not exactly the same as 'staying in his own home' but at least it was his own private place and he was surrounded by as much help as he needed. As his dementia progressed, for his last six months in the flat we supplemented the help he got there with extra help from a private care agency - and they were excellent. They came at the allotted times and were allocated sensible time slots for their tasks. Also they tended to be the same staff rather than a new face every time. I know that people who have to rely on what the local authority gives them are not so lucky.

Now Dad is in the care home which is in the grounds of the same flats, so he was already familiar with the place and the staff and had an easy transition. The staff are wonderful and he is content. He is paying for this, while other residents there, receiving exactly the same care, are being paid for by our local authority.

I wouldn't choose to stay on by myself in my own home if I could see myself becoming less able to manage. And I really don't want to be a burden to my lovely son and his family. So, I guess it would be assisted living or a care home for me, or voluntarily departing this life if I could find an easy way to do that!

And if the government did something about housing costs, then children might not need to live far from their parents and so it really would be a case of just nipping up the road in an emergency. Or as my elderly neighbor said to his daughter when she complained about having to travel so far to help him "I didn't move away, you did!"

While there are indeed flaws in the care system for those who remain in their own homes as we discovered when my mother needed help over and above what we were able to provide, you need to bear in mind the enormous cost of care home.....in excess of £1000 a week......my pension certainly isn't that much and I doubt my kids can afford that!
So for some remaining in their homes may be the only option!

I know first hand Jane10 how difficult it can be for a very frail and vulnerable person to manage at home, even with a reasonable care package. My mother is unable to even get out of bed or do anything for herself and has carers four times a day, and although needs full time care absolutely refuses to go into a nursing home. It would make life a lot easier for us but I can't honestly blame her as she loves her own home. The problem is that the actual care provided is only a small part of enabling her to be at home. There needs to be a responsible person to manage finances and pay bills, be available when the emergency call alarm is activated, plus cleaning, laundry, gardening, hospital appointments and transport, doctor/nurse visits, ordering prescriptions & inco pads, gas servicing, shopping, home hairdressing, making a decent meal once a day. (Carers can only do basic in time allowed). Also chatting and providing company. These are just a few things which immediately spring to mind. It's trite to say that the elderly should be cared for by family and in practice this usually means a female relative. As has been said many of us with elderly parents are also old with our own medical concerns, grandchildren, and often dont live very close to their parents. If my brother, who has a long standing mental health condition didn't live within a few miles of her and helps out the whole situation would be untenable, but it is not great for him.

In 14 years of doing mobile manicures I have seen a wide variety of home " care". When it's good it's very very good, and when it's bad it's awful.

Time is such an issue for all carers visiting the elderly. They just don't have enough of it, so even the best of them can only do what they have to do and leave promptly.

Money definitely helps if you've got it.

Personally I am dreading needing either home car or residential care. Trying to stay fit as I can to avoid them.

The very many people I met who came from Zimbabwe would talk about their mums maids, who live with and look after them.
I was horrified when they said that poor girls are taken into someone's home as a maid, to help out.
It was explained to me that the girls often had a much better quality of life, being taken in to live in a house with clean running water, their own room, and often another maid to keep them company.
Good employers will send them to school, too.
I was told that a lot of the maids became lifelong friends of their employers, and come back to visit years later.

BTW, I know people are fond of saying that 'in other countries' families look after their own elderly. In many places they have no choice - there is no other care available.

While she was working in Cambodia my dd saw an old granny with dementia tied to a chair all day outside, to a) stop her wandering, and b) to keep her incontinence in one place, where both she and the mess could be washed down daily.

There was a large extended family nearby and nobody in the family or the village saw any problem with it. It was simply the only practical solution in a poor family where the adults needed to either earn money or were busy with household duties and children.

By contrast, we have Indian friends, not loaded but comfortable, living in Mumbai. One of their elderly parents with dementia is looked after in her own home 100 miles away by 2 live-in carers. As our friends pointed out, such arrangements are infinitely cheaper and easier to arrange there than in the U.K.

I remarked that so many people here like to tell us that 'everybody' in other countries looks after their own elderly. They said that is rubbish, at least in India by anyone who can afford live in help, which is comparatively so much less expensive than it would be here.

I agree with sarahhelenwhitney ......it was obvious (or should have been !) to successive governments that the aging population thanks to medical advances, better health eduction etc encouraging people to actively helpt themselves to stay alive longer ....would, therefore, be the longest living generation ever ......but no plan was ever put into action to alleviate this problem ....it should have been addressed many years ago and provision made, either by increased taxes, pa ying towards your NHS care (ie for doctors appointments( ,,,,many people I know wail that 'I paid NI all my working life to pay for my care'......yes but the cost was probably worked out on probability via an Actuary for the government ......and was far off the mark. Governments moan there is no money .....for tthe NHS, for the care of the elderly, for roads or schools, social services, ...................so if there is no money for these things one would have to ask where has it all gone ? We are blamed for having our OAP (worst in Europe !) and for owning property (wasn;t easy even when we were young to get onto the property ladder ,,,with no help from mum n dad) ......SO ....may we see the government balance sheet, would be an interesting read I think ....foreign aid could be re directed to some of these things, the pensions and perks of the MPs could be scrutinised (much squealing from them I have no doubt),,,,,,and what about the ideas now being tossed around of cutting WFA for the 'wealthy (no figure of wealth mentioned !) and re starting payment of NI by pesioners ? I am with you ....if fit enough, sellt he house, go on a round the world cruise, ending in Zurich ! simples ...................even though a short trip to Switzerland would cost in excess of £10,000 (and what happens to that money which has to be paid upfront, if you die of natural causes before you get there !!!!???? this concerns me !!

£800 a week works out at just over £114 a day.
In a care home that would usually include all meals and drinks, all laundry (often a lot), help if necessary with washing, dressing, eating and 'toileting' as they like to call it. Plus usually higher than normal levels of heating, and often activities thrown in.

I know it sounds a lot, but compared to the cost of just B&B anywhere halfway nice locally, it may not seem excessive.