Independent living?!

Flats.

Sounds to me like your local council is not working the system very well.
Our local council Greenwich has a package called care in the community. Just sadly lost an elderly neighbour but her care was excellent. Three times a day she has district nurses call.
Luckily her daughter lived by and she arranged for her shopping to be delivered and she was there when it came.
The council placed a box on the wall out side the main entrance of our block of last, the carers had a password the box had a key to our main door and to her front door. Her daughter would ring every day and call in three or four times a week. She was very independent and was happy with the system.

Having seen the lack of sense in SS and them constantly disputing the need for help with family I have looked into the Swiss place too.
I have seen SS state that an octogenarian has nothing wrong with them. Really? So why was this person covered in operation scars and had disabled allowances for over 30 years? That seemed so stupid but that is the level of person in charge of providing the care

It is a terrible situation but I really don’t know how things can be improved without funding. My poor mother was discharged against my advice following a nasty fall. A care package was put in place which was a carer coming to put her to bed at about 8 pm and another visit about 9 am. Despite me telling the hospital staff that she was not mobile enough or strong enough and pleading with the Occ Health team to at least put her into a home for a week or two to increase her strength the hospital discharged her. She would not allow the evening carer to put her into bed and insisted that she would be fine getting in herself. Sadly, when the morning carer arrived to get her up and dressed they found her kneeling beside her bed. She had been at home for less than 24 hours and died alone and probably very frightened ?

Signed up for Switzerland when that time comes. Should be available here, and disgraceful that it isn't (cf The Netherlands). If you're religious, you can always opt out.

I blame the government health guidance. We've all stopped smoking and eating too much fatty food - and the NHS is giving quadruple bypass operations for free. This means we no longer die of heart attacks in our late 60s like we used to, when we were still able to dress and feed ourselves. That means most of us are now going to end up very old and needing someone else to dress and feed us. They should have left us smoking ourselves to death in our 60s/70s

Feel so sad reading this as just getting over the death of my mother in law who unfortunately had to fight for her care at 95 . Very independent and had all our help with daily shopping food etc but got frail rather quick after a few falls. Left with
I muted care till we got onto social services who were just going to let her out of hospital with no care package, anyway fast forward fought like mad and got her into a care home after two months of hassling them she died 4 weeks to the day she went in with extreme good care but got pneumonia. Sad memories of last few months for us.

My in laws lived in independent living that also had care provided for extra money. It was a wonderful place with all sorts of activities. The problem was the carpets had access to their apartment and stole a credit card from them as well as money.

I would rather be dead than live to be that infirm and yet even when terminally ill, we are forced by the state to live on.

We did away with home helps because we thought we knew better, we have encouraged men to be care staff for old ladies, who would prefer not to have personal care from them, we send people out into the community who can barely speak English.

Care packages ? No such thing.

The problem with having carers at home is that unless there is an attentive relative, there is no one to ''manage'' the carers who come, what they do and the quality of their work as carers.
It can work well but it can be a nightmare with the recipient left uncared for.
If you have a relative receiving care at home, they still need you to oversee the carers, check they are turning up, that your relative is being fed, washed etc.
And arrange or do the food shopping. In my area, carers now cant do either shopping nor cleaning.Only men could have decided to omit those two things I think.

Yes, there’s one near us travelsafar run by a housing association. I hear good reports. Just hope we never need it

We are in this position with my in laws at the moment.FIL is 90 with dementia,MIL in poor physical and mental health,just been discharged from hospital.We live 160 miles away but have done our best to put things in place to support them but all over ridden by SIL who controls their money and whom they both seem petrified of.We are off down to see them again in a couple of days but not hopeful that we can change anything.SIL determined not to let them spend any money on care but I think the situation is reaching crisis point.They are such a lovely couple and deserve to feel safe,peaceful and happy at this time in their lives.Any suggestions as to what we can do would be very gratefully received.

The system is totally broken. I volunteer at a large local hospital and see the same people week after week on the geriatric ward, medically fit but unable to be discharged as there is no effective care. Meanwhile the rest of the population have their operations cancelled because there are no beds. We need the NHS to be seamlessly integrated with the care system. Ideally we need rehabilitation hospitals for older folks so they can spend a couple of months being assessed and a care package put in place before they are discharged, whilst their hospital bed is used for someone else. Lots of times elderly patients are discharged, the care doesnt function and they are back in hospital a week or two later. Its deeply frustrating for all concerned.

I would advise anyone with an elderly parent or relative to look into flexicare living.These are schemes which give the person a flat and there are carers on duty from 8am-10pm every day and then a carer sleeps in the building overnight every night incase of emergency.The tenants are given pull cords and pendant, fall pendants and various other means of raising the alarm in an emergency. I know they exsist for i do a few shifts in one to cover the permanent staff when they are on holiday or off sick.The most fantastic idea ever.Usually run by local councils or housing associations.

I've already decided that I can live independently but in a place that gives you the extra care if needed. I'm only 57 but thinking about the future as not to leave it too late

Many would choose an earlier demise in their own home than residential care.

A friend told me about some neighbours. The woman is severely disabled and the husband has Alzheimers. Recently he emptied out all their packets of tablets and mixed them up. Fortunately it was spotted in time and now they have a locked cupboard which the carer can open to administer their drugs. However, it is a worry that he is doing things that can endanger his wife's life. Surely neither is capable of independent living? I wonder how many older people are in a similar situation?

We also had day centres, with elderly people collected by l.a. transport. I'm not saying of the previous arrangements were perfect but I do believe they were much better than current ones.

Yes it absolutely needs to change. I also heard that my neighbour (a 90+ spinster) has had three different men providing her intimate care in the past 2 weeks. It's just not right.
Finding a magic reliable 'someone' to live in is pie in the sky unless you're on a bus route and have unlimited resources. Consistency of carer is a big issue too.
BTW I'm not talking about fit and well elderly people but ones who are vulnerable, post stroke etc and whose capacity for decision making has waned. PoA is important to organise in advance if there is someone to do it. Sadly, sometimes there isn't.

I'm with MissA and Lucky - let's reinvent the wheel. It would mean jointly funding local authorities and health with enough cash to do the job properly.
The Home Help and Meals on Wheels system were invaluable to busy social work teams. No reply to meals on wheels, or a call from the home help would result in an update social work assessment. We had good links with our colleagues in health, despite the bed/border disputes about whether the person needed social or nursing care.

I understand there are some initiatives running which address some of the issues mentioned here.

For instance, a young person/student nurse/apprentice/trainee lodges with the older person and pays a reduced rent in exchange for, say, ten hours a month helping and/or keeping company with the homeowner.

Greater Manchester has a scheme which seeks to bring health and social care together gmhsc.org.uk to provide better, more integrated care.

What's needed is a strategic approach by HMG.... flying pigs, anyone?

(Incidentally, a flying pig emoticon might be useful).

One of the problems is that the physical care (whether at home or in a care home) is only part of the problem. For example, you can get someone to make sure you have taken your medication, help to wash and dress you , make sure you have eaten etc. But there has to be more to “living” than that. What about stimulating conversation, a friendly chat, entertainment etc?

My grandma was very lucky as I spent hours with her looking at photos, watching tv, talking about the news, sharing cake and tea. We included her in everything we did as a family (and yes it was very difficult sometimes) .

Old people whether they are in their own homes or a care home, need more than just the basic care package.

Exactly.

Thinking back to my old friend living in a substandard care home and paying £600 a week, you could have someone live in full time for that, in your own home.

Sorry gilly I've only just seen your question to me. I agree with all.of your list, but mostly I think the system that provides "care" for "independent living" doesn't work.