Cider vinegar for arthritis?

I totally agree Liazigirl but most of the research is put into ‘popular’ diseases and I doubt if much or any money is spent on natural cures or natural help as if we found out a dandelion helped hair regrow everyone would just pick dandelions not go to the pharmacy to pay out their money

Lazigirl, I agree. all drugs have potential side effects and carry risks. The specialists in the field of RA are up to date on research and in my experience give you lots of information on any treatment they're suggesting. The treatments will have been well researched. Those Chinese herbs etc haven't been subjected to the same rigorous research into costs and benefits.

Well, Iam64, obviously it's up to you whether you want to try cutting out a food like spuds that might be inflaming your whole system and causing pain. It works, and personally I'd rather not take any horrible drugs with their side effects, nor have the pain or have the prospect of making the pain worse. I use Rhus Tox & Ruta Cream on the arthritis in my hands and am virtually pain-free with the way I'm managing it, so all I can say is "Result!". You say you have already cut out red meat and red wine so it seems you accept that various foods can cause problems. I have to eat a very restricted diet myself because of a variety of health problems, but the main thing is that I would rather be well.

Rather unnecessarily combative there imo Sparkle. As you noticed, I have eliminated certain food items that I know don't suit me.
I can assure you that I'd rather not take any horrible drugs with their possible side effects. One of the things that those of us who have OA, RA and the autoimmune conditions that go with it, will be fully aware of is that yes, some foods exacerbate and also that there are periods when the disease goes into remission. Are you a Rheumatologist I wonder.

No, a nutritionist.

MY mother had RA and tried every alternative and conventional medicine to no avail. I have SLE which predisposes to OA, my daughter has Psiaoritic Arthritis - none of us found any food modifications to offer any relief at all just conventional medicine, keeping active and staying positive (except mother who found it helpful to make everyones life a misery).

Teetime. I have a similar mother.

Ah, that makes sense. I have a god friend who s a nutritionist and advocates an anti inflammatory diet rather than meds.
Teetime’s Family genetics sound so like mine. I’m totally with you Teetime, when you find diet makes no difference, take conventonal meds as prescribed by your consultant rhuematologist, keep active and positive. I’ve found returning to Yoga and starting Pilates great, stronger muscles, better posture less low back pain

If I posted this I expect many might be sceptical,

Contrary to popular belief, osteoarthritis is not caused by ageing and does not necessarily deteriorate.

But that statement was taken directly from a reputable health website.

As far as I am aware OA has a big genetic component and runs in my family. I do not believe it is solely caused by wear and tear but conditions such as being over weight can exacerbate it.

Which website, OldMeg?
I'd like to have a look. Thanks

It was NICE Jane

I’ll try to post a link to the appropriate page

NICE arthritis

I also firmly believe there is a link to diet.

Thanks OldMeg

Let me know what you think having read that Jane.

There’s rather a lot of it, isn’t there OldMeg.

I’ve only read the public information bit.
I’m not sure the emphasis on losing weight and exercising would help many OA sufferers and can’t help wondering whether the evidence that these two interventions help people, is as good as the evidence that NICE apparently have, that acupuncture and other procedures don’t work.
I was quite surprised by the long list of things that doctors aren’t allowed to offer, and by the statement that X-rays aren’t necessary to diagnose OA.
And I noted the complete absence of any reference to dietary factors, either positive or negative.
There were frequent references to the support that patients were entitled to, but I couldn’t help wondering what form this might take.
My overall impression was that if I was an OA sufferer I’d be a bit dispirited by the NICE advice/guidance

I had a friend who was a piano teacher whose only help in the mornings was cider vinegar withy -as others have said - honey; apart from anything else, this is much more palatable.

I think it’s because NICE isn’t offering advice to OA sufferers. This is more guidence for clinicians- what NICE sanctions and will fund. While that’s interesting from the patients point of view (as you can go ‘armed’ with this knowledge to your GP) what I found interesting was the précis of the condition, one sentence of which I posted on here.

I have no doubt but that is sound.

I totally agree with you re the lack of a wider perspective eg diet, but as that isn’t (I think) scientifically proven then it will not fall within their remit.

I do believe the diet connection, but I’m constantly being discouraged by dismissive articles on websites. There is sufficient anecdotal evidence to justify dietary changes and indeed I’ve managed my OA quite successfully by cutting out foods that cause flare ups.

I’ve tested my theories sufficiently (IMO) by elimination diets then reintroducing suspect foods. On one occasion I could barely walk next day.

To me that is demonstrated.

The section I read was ‘Information for the public’ so that presumably includes OA sufferers, oldmeg.
I’m not sure exactly what NICE’s remit is, and how far clinicians are allowed to stray from its guidelines before they are accused of practising inappropriately, but I’m sceptical about evidence-based medicine because it depends on the quality of the evidence, doesn’t it?
It’s too easy for the government to use ‘evidence’ as a means not to help patients but to cut costs and ration treatment.

Ah, I was reading the Clinical Guidance section Jane

Just skimmed the ‘info for public’ and found it quite informative... as far as it goes.

But yes, certainly I’d be looking outside these strictly clinical statements to manage my own condition.

I’m guessing you are a sufferer Jane? Are you successfully managing your condition, with or without help from GP?

Those who advocate cider vinegar, with or without honey, just be aware of the danger to your tooth enamel from acid erosion, because your teeth will be wrecked by it. Recommend drinking it through a straw.

Alternatively turn to homeopathy which is brilliant!

I’m not a sufferer in the sense of having been to the doctor to get a diagnosis oldmeg.
But I have various aches and pains and clicking joints & at times wonder whether it would be a good idea to consult him.
I take glucosamine in spite of the NICE advice to the contrary, do Pilates and ballroom dancing (supposed to increase synovial fluid in the joints) and use voltarol gel sometimes.
It’s mostly ok and I try to stay away from oral anti-inflammatories.
Just putting off the evil moment of being medicalised I suppose.

Jane I stopped taking glucosamine and regretted it. So back on it. I pace myself re exercise. For example I cannot walk for too long on hard surfaces like pavements, but can do considerably longer on grass, on woodland paths etc, where I prefer to walk the dogs anyway. I do 30 minutes of strength and yoga/Pilates exercises most morning to keep the old synovial fluid moving too.

I take 1 paracetamol at night and, like you, use voltarol if required. I’ve also found Salonpas patches handy if you don’t mind smelling of wintergreen. And I’ve used a TENS machine when I had a flare up.

Diet-wise I investigated the Nightshade family online. Mixed messages. Some rubbishing the theory while others raved about being ‘cured’ by cutting them out. Then I read a reasoned article which said that there is some anecdotal evidence though nothing proven scientifically but suggested trying an elimination diet for a couple of months to see if it helped. A sensible suggestion, especially when I knew my last flare up was after I’d ingested a good couple of servings of home-made, and very delicious, tomato and red pepper soup.

I’ve cut out all nightshades since and, touch wooden head, had not had a flare up in months until I ate a lasagne my SiL had prepared (didn’t have the heart to refuse when he’d gone to so much trouble) and it tested my theory as I could barely walk next day.

Anyway that’s my theory. I don’t trouble my GP as I feel I know more about my condition than he does, but I did insist on an X-ray recently and it confirmed my self diagnosis.

PS I’m not on any prescribed medication and, again like you, want to hold off as long as possible.

Thanks OldMeg that's all interesting and confirms my own opinions
I was given a paper some time ago by a GP acquaintance which concluded that patients who took glucosamine had as much pain relief as those who took anti-inflammatories. I fear that NICE is sometimes selective in the evidence it uses to create its guidelines.