Cider vinegar for arthritis?

Teatime refer back to my previous post.
My sister has psoriatic arthritis and I have psoriasis.
We both found the regime in the book extremely beneficial.
It was written by a consultant who specialised in arthritis.
As I have said before, not easy but did give results.

A friend of mine lives in Cumbria with her old Border Collie and walks it every day. They often meet styles in the dry stone walls and the dog was finding it increasingly difficult to scramble over these or squeeze under other types.

Glucosamine helped her recover her flexibility and that can’t be down to the placebo affect!

I found glucosamine helped. I'm currently giving supplements to my dog who is 9 years old, very fit and not overweight but developed a slight limp in her right front let. Yep, the limp has gone. Friends with dogs or horses swear by glucosamine and animals can't imagine they feel better.

Thanks OldMeg that's all interesting and confirms my own opinions
I was given a paper some time ago by a GP acquaintance which concluded that patients who took glucosamine had as much pain relief as those who took anti-inflammatories. I fear that NICE is sometimes selective in the evidence it uses to create its guidelines.

Jane I stopped taking glucosamine and regretted it. So back on it. I pace myself re exercise. For example I cannot walk for too long on hard surfaces like pavements, but can do considerably longer on grass, on woodland paths etc, where I prefer to walk the dogs anyway. I do 30 minutes of strength and yoga/Pilates exercises most morning to keep the old synovial fluid moving too.

I take 1 paracetamol at night and, like you, use voltarol if required. I’ve also found Salonpas patches handy if you don’t mind smelling of wintergreen. And I’ve used a TENS machine when I had a flare up.

Diet-wise I investigated the Nightshade family online. Mixed messages. Some rubbishing the theory while others raved about being ‘cured’ by cutting them out. Then I read a reasoned article which said that there is some anecdotal evidence though nothing proven scientifically but suggested trying an elimination diet for a couple of months to see if it helped. A sensible suggestion, especially when I knew my last flare up was after I’d ingested a good couple of servings of home-made, and very delicious, tomato and red pepper soup.

I’ve cut out all nightshades since and, touch wooden head, had not had a flare up in months until I ate a lasagne my SiL had prepared (didn’t have the heart to refuse when he’d gone to so much trouble) and it tested my theory as I could barely walk next day.

Anyway that’s my theory. I don’t trouble my GP as I feel I know more about my condition than he does, but I did insist on an X-ray recently and it confirmed my self diagnosis.

PS I’m not on any prescribed medication and, again like you, want to hold off as long as possible.

I’m not a sufferer in the sense of having been to the doctor to get a diagnosis oldmeg.
But I have various aches and pains and clicking joints & at times wonder whether it would be a good idea to consult him.
I take glucosamine in spite of the NICE advice to the contrary, do Pilates and ballroom dancing (supposed to increase synovial fluid in the joints) and use voltarol gel sometimes.
It’s mostly ok and I try to stay away from oral anti-inflammatories.
Just putting off the evil moment of being medicalised I suppose.

Those who advocate cider vinegar, with or without honey, just be aware of the danger to your tooth enamel from acid erosion, because your teeth will be wrecked by it. Recommend drinking it through a straw.

Alternatively turn to homeopathy which is brilliant!

Just skimmed the ‘info for public’ and found it quite informative... as far as it goes.

But yes, certainly I’d be looking outside these strictly clinical statements to manage my own condition.

I’m guessing you are a sufferer Jane? Are you successfully managing your condition, with or without help from GP?

Ah, I was reading the Clinical Guidance section Jane

The section I read was ‘Information for the public’ so that presumably includes OA sufferers, oldmeg.
I’m not sure exactly what NICE’s remit is, and how far clinicians are allowed to stray from its guidelines before they are accused of practising inappropriately, but I’m sceptical about evidence-based medicine because it depends on the quality of the evidence, doesn’t it?
It’s too easy for the government to use ‘evidence’ as a means not to help patients but to cut costs and ration treatment.

I think it’s because NICE isn’t offering advice to OA sufferers. This is more guidence for clinicians- what NICE sanctions and will fund. While that’s interesting from the patients point of view (as you can go ‘armed’ with this knowledge to your GP) what I found interesting was the précis of the condition, one sentence of which I posted on here.

I have no doubt but that is sound.

I totally agree with you re the lack of a wider perspective eg diet, but as that isn’t (I think) scientifically proven then it will not fall within their remit.

I do believe the diet connection, but I’m constantly being discouraged by dismissive articles on websites. There is sufficient anecdotal evidence to justify dietary changes and indeed I’ve managed my OA quite successfully by cutting out foods that cause flare ups.

I’ve tested my theories sufficiently (IMO) by elimination diets then reintroducing suspect foods. On one occasion I could barely walk next day.

To me that is demonstrated.

I had a friend who was a piano teacher whose only help in the mornings was cider vinegar withy -as others have said - honey; apart from anything else, this is much more palatable.

There’s rather a lot of it, isn’t there OldMeg.

I’ve only read the public information bit.
I’m not sure the emphasis on losing weight and exercising would help many OA sufferers and can’t help wondering whether the evidence that these two interventions help people, is as good as the evidence that NICE apparently have, that acupuncture and other procedures don’t work.
I was quite surprised by the long list of things that doctors aren’t allowed to offer, and by the statement that X-rays aren’t necessary to diagnose OA.
And I noted the complete absence of any reference to dietary factors, either positive or negative.
There were frequent references to the support that patients were entitled to, but I couldn’t help wondering what form this might take.
My overall impression was that if I was an OA sufferer I’d be a bit dispirited by the NICE advice/guidance

Let me know what you think having read that Jane.

Thanks OldMeg

I also firmly believe there is a link to diet.

It was NICE Jane

I’ll try to post a link to the appropriate page

NICE arthritis

Which website, OldMeg?
I'd like to have a look. Thanks

As far as I am aware OA has a big genetic component and runs in my family. I do not believe it is solely caused by wear and tear but conditions such as being over weight can exacerbate it.

If I posted this I expect many might be sceptical,

Contrary to popular belief, osteoarthritis is not caused by ageing and does not necessarily deteriorate.

But that statement was taken directly from a reputable health website.

Ah, that makes sense. I have a god friend who s a nutritionist and advocates an anti inflammatory diet rather than meds.
Teetime’s Family genetics sound so like mine. I’m totally with you Teetime, when you find diet makes no difference, take conventonal meds as prescribed by your consultant rhuematologist, keep active and positive. I’ve found returning to Yoga and starting Pilates great, stronger muscles, better posture less low back pain

Teetime. I have a similar mother.

MY mother had RA and tried every alternative and conventional medicine to no avail. I have SLE which predisposes to OA, my daughter has Psiaoritic Arthritis - none of us found any food modifications to offer any relief at all just conventional medicine, keeping active and staying positive (except mother who found it helpful to make everyones life a misery).

No, a nutritionist.

Rather unnecessarily combative there imo Sparkle. As you noticed, I have eliminated certain food items that I know don't suit me.
I can assure you that I'd rather not take any horrible drugs with their possible side effects. One of the things that those of us who have OA, RA and the autoimmune conditions that go with it, will be fully aware of is that yes, some foods exacerbate and also that there are periods when the disease goes into remission. Are you a Rheumatologist I wonder.