ECT for 16 year olds !

sodapop, no one has said patients were strapped down in the 60’s.

I am questioning what is being done now

I was a mental health nurse in the 60s and assisted with many ECT treatments both straight and modified. Patients were never strapped down for the treatment. In those days we were limited as to treatment for severe illness and for a lot of people ECT relieved their symptoms. It's easy to criticise things which happened so long ago, I'm not sure we can rest on our laurels with the treatment meted out to people with mental health problems now.

Kathyd

I am baffled how someone can be fine after over 20 treatments, the average is 4 to 12, and I think the limit for the very, very ill is 20.

Yes Abergail, a child of sixteen would have to have been through various medications and counselling, and suffer from the degrees of mental health problems I listed and which were published by MIND

So sad to hear.your kindness was probably nearer the truth.i thought the asylum treatment of years ago was left behind....scary thought that some traumatised teen can be given ect .

Friend of mine has had over 20 done and he is fine

Post what you like. You want opinions you got them.

Jane10, your post is the most insulting and patronising I have received on this forum and I have had some stinkers ,

Do not tell me how or what to post

Anniebach stop getting carried away and sensationalising the matter. More up to date posters have informed you of the current situation.

PECS. I am trying to understand why 16 year old children have been given ECT, I only mentioned America because they do treat young children with ECT for Aspergers.

Reading the reasons from MIND when patients can be considered for this treatment, those awful symptoms cannot appear in a year , there is medication, counselling first, ECT is considered when all else fails, surely the teens is too young to claim all other treatments have failed.

ECT isn’t as barbaric now, patients are not strapped to beds, but the risks are the same.

ECT has been used since the 1930’s yet still little research as been carried out. Not all hospitals treat patients with it, I question why if it is a success

I had no idea ECT was still used. I remember it many many years ago, 40+ years. It did seem barbaric at the time but hopefully it has improved. It seems very harsh to use on teenagers though.

annie I did not see the debate on TV so am only giving my opinion that whilst ECT is a severe treatment I do not percieve it as the appalling treatment as administered in the past. I cannot speak for medics in US..I hsve no experience there. .

PECS, for a child to be given ECT they must have gone through ‘medication ‘ counselling’, there has to be a history of mental illness , in America children with the likes of Aspergers are given ECT, is this happening in this country

Annie sadly teens may
have severe, life-threatening depression & have not responded to medication or talking treatments.

It is not a happy situation for anyone. I cannot imagine anybody wants this to be the option but if it is the chance for someone...

‘Not nearly as barbaric today ‘ ‘in most people it’s quite safe’
It has been used for 80 years

MIND -

main side effect is memory loss (which is also common after seizures caused by epilepsy). This is usually short-term, but can be very significant, disabling and long-lasting in some people and is a cause of anxiety. Personal experiences

MIND
What problems can it treat

have severe, life-threatening depression
• have not responded to medication or talking treatments
• have found it helpful in the past and have asked to receive it again • have severe postnatal depression
It may sometime be used if you:
• are experiencing a manic or psychotic episode which is severe or is lasting a long time
• are catatonic (staying frozen in one position for a long time; or repeating the same movement for no obvious reason; or being extremely restless, unrelated to medication)
It may also be used when it is important to have an immediate effect; for example, because you are so depressed that you are unable to eat or drink, and are in danger of kidney failure.

For children ?

My dad had ECT in the late 60s to treat his depression. He had other treatments as well and was diagnosed as bi-polar and needed to be medicated. I know his treatment was discussed extensively with him, my mum and his psychiatrist before he was given ECT. I have mixed feelings about it. It worked for my dad but I really don't think it should be given to children.

Thanks for an informed post agnurse
It is distressing to have a loved one who is mentally ill and to feel so helpless to do anything practical. But treatments are always evolving and improving and many, who in the past may have sent years incarcerated, are able to live healthy lives again. Sadly the nature of mental illness means that some cannot accept the help and treatment offered, despite the very best efforts of family and friend as well and medical staff. My aunt had ECT to help with her depression and psychosis. She was elderly and it helped for a few years. When her illness returned she was otherwise too frail to have more ECT treatment.

Actually ECT isn't nearly as barbaric today as it used to be. I've actually seen it done in hospital when I was a nursing student. In most people it's quite safe and the side effects are minimal - typically some memory loss, usually of the period of time in which ECT was performed. Informed consent is always required first and its use is reserved for cases of depression and sometimes schizophrenia that have been refractory to medications.

It's done under short-acting anesthesia and patients are also given a muscle relaxant. At the facility where I attended practicum it was done in the post-op recovery room.

There are a lot of opinions here based on what people saw or heard about in the 1970s! Almost 50 years ago.
Patient confidentiality is important to maintain. There is a Mental Welfare Commission in Scotland (and one in England) which safeguards the interests of patients. If families have concerns they can contact them for advice and support.

Surely one cannot compare treatment with a defribillator with ECT ?

ECT treatment may not be as cruel as in the past , strapping patients to bed, but the results are the same.

I think there were many appalling treatments for mentally ill people. I have visited the Bethlem Museum of the Mind and it is awful to see what was done to ill people. However the museum is in the grounds of a working hospital. If I remember correctly they do use ECT but it is not the same as the violent and frightening treatment of the past.

We do not think it barbaric when we use defribillators.

I have to comment! My Mum had ECT in the early 1960s followed by a lobotomy. The story is very long but to cut it very short she died in March 2016 from Vascular dementia and I am sure it was all connected. ECT may have short term positive results but what is the long term damage? From what I can see this is a barbaric treatment and should be stopped

No surprise Ellan

Anniebach it has been known that patients were given ECT without their consent.

I remember visiting a work colleague in hospital following a course of ECT in the 1970s. I was horrified. He couldn't stop shaking and he couldn't speak. He was never again the bright young man he had been before. The treatment was given for OCD. He never returned to work and a couple of years later he just disappeared.