Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a good place to start.
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This 'vulnerable' label ----
(91 Posts)There has been so much emphasis on isolating over 70s we seem to have missed that other people are just as likely to catch this virus. The very young seem to be very caring about us staying at home and getting other people to do our shopping etc - but they're forgetting that they are not immune, just less likely to become really ill, and frankly some of them seem to carrying on as though their lives haven't changed - except that the shop shelves are empty.
I do think we should emphasise that everyone whatever their age can become ill and that everyone should be self isolating unless their work is essential. I think the over 70s have got the message now.
Otherwise it will continue to spread.
You understand correctly Tangerine. The whole point is that those who are most able should do essential tasks.
I don't think notanan is being ridiculous at all. I do, however, think some people are selfish and thoughtless and have lost sight of what is actually essential.
If everyone self isolated, how would people get shopping?
It is no good saying they can get things delivered because it is very hard to get a slot for either click & collect or online delivery where I live.
I shop for others, as well as myself. I understood that, if someone was well, without Covid-19 symptoms and young enough to do this, we were supposed to physically go to supermarkets so online slots could be released to those not so fortunate.
No balancing act will be needed if the people are dead 
.
The people going to work to provide essentials find the risk more palatable.
I never said nobody should work. I said that people shouldnt have others running around after them for items they wouldnt risk themselves or their loved ones for right now.
Keyworkers want to be doing essential work. Its when they are leaving and risking their families for non essentials that it becomes harder for them to bear
notanan you do not seem very concerend about all the other people working: medicalstaff, food retail staff, those moving food from farms to shops, farmworkers. All those other people working to keep us safe.
Perhaps everyone should give up work and socially isolate. What then for the sick, the hungry, those in need etc etc?
You are just not being logical.
I never said people shouldnt get what they need HAZBEEN
I said you should ensure it is a need worth the risk. Because you are risking someone for it even if you dont go get it yourself.
Hasn't the government been sending out letters to everyone via Royal Mail? Are these considered essential?
Ordering craft goods etc is not essential??
Trying telling a 6'3" very strong 19 year old autistic man he cant have what he needs for his project!!
My grandson is struggling with all the lockdown entails as it is. My daughter (his Mum) is 5' and has a hard enough time with him especially as his temper flare ups can be spectacular!She is in the shielding group due to health problems and they live 300 mile from me. If I couldnt send them things by courier or she couldnt order on line I fear for his mental health.
My friend has just attempted to take her own life due to the mental stress of lockdown, she was obeying all the rules and then some, so dont worry about peoples mental health will you notanan.
I am assured that the goods I ordered were from firms which are adhering to very strict new guidelines.
One firm wrote to say that those who had children, vulnerable relatives were not working and that a new warehouse had been fitted out to ensure safe working conditions for those volunteering to come in to help keep the country going.
Some of my family are still working
Some are on the front line, but not all.
They are, however, carrying out jobs to benefit those who are in self-isolation.
Its a decent way to determine whether you are comissioning an "essential" journey or not
Monica I dont understand what is rediculous about it.
If you need it enough that you would justify sending your own loved one into a hectic warehouse for it, then fair enough you probably do need it, and keyworkers are there to meet needs at the moment.
Whats rediculous about that?
notanan Don't be ridiculous.
What moral high ground?
Im saying that if you "need" it enough that you would put your loved ones at risk for it, then you need it enough to order it.
If you wouldnt, then its a want not a need.
Its a sound rule of thumb that adapts to totally differing needs.
notanan2 - I’m not prepared to get into a war of words with you, I have enough to contend with. What I will say is that it’s very easy to take the moral high ground when you’re not walking in someone else’s shoes.
That’s all.
Finis
You can draw with any pen and paper you dont need to order 5 "mindfulness colouring books"
If you are a knitter, you'll have scraps, you can unwind an old sweater, you dont need brand new yarn.
You can prep your decorating projects you dont need the new paint to get working
You can garden with your hands
Nobody is saying dont do mindful productive things. But you do not need to ram and break warehouse/shop staff to do so
If you have a need. Buy it.
Just assess carefully how much of a need it is before making someone else risk themselves to get it to you.
People at work ARE willing to work to bring you your "needs". But the public is taking the p*ss
Its not unsympathetic to say that if its not something you would risk you or yours for, then it is not enough of a "need" to you to justify others risking themselves to get it to you. Thats a pretty sound rule of thumb to distinguish a want from a need, because peoples needs are different.
Its also not unsympathetic to say that buying more new stuff is not likely the answer to a mental health crisis.
I might add, having shopped in Holland and Barrett recently. They have so few staff in their shops and wide counters that I am surprised there is a problem. I do not think I have ever been within 2 metres of an H&B staff memeber, even before the Covid emergency.
While I know that many retail and warehouse staff have good grounds for grievance, it does not follow that everyone does.
And you have still not said anything about a solution. At least I have admitted I do not know what the solution is.
Look at the danger medical staff are in. Perhaps they should down tools and self exclude.
notanan If you post a link please give a brief summary of its contents in your post.
I agree with all you say about those at work. So far you haven't made a single remark that suggests that you have any sympathy for those whose mental states will be affected by this shut down.
"A Holland & Barrett worker - who asked to remain anonymous for fear of losing their job - told the BBC : "Holland & Barrett is putting our lives in danger with the pursuit of profit over life.
"The general atmosphere is one of fear and stress with a lot of our workers and colleagues quite frightened to speak their minds."
They said: "We do not sell essentials and have people coming in to purchase flapjacks and sticks of liquorice, hardly an essential purchase."
In many of the shops, they said: "It is almost practically impossible to maintain social distancing, as the aisles are very short width and when we have to deal with customer queries, they do not respect the boundaries"
www.mirror.co.uk/money/coronavirus-holland--barrett-staff-21832062
He said that while in theory, measures have been introduced, many are not practical.
"Whilst queueing for the clock in machine, we have to stand closer than one metre," he said.
"Whilst working, it is impossible to be more than one metre away.
"You can be placed on either the role of a 'Slammer' or 'Taper' which results in you being at the end of a conveyor belt. Each belt has up to eight 'packers' sending boxes down.
"By this point, these items have already come into contact with various workers, greatly increasing their risk of contamination.
"There has already been a large number of people sick, yet management refuses to close it down.
"The company has become a living hell to work for."
"An Amazon warehouse employee has described his workplace as a "living hell" as staff work around the clock to deliver goods to homes trapped in lockdown.
The staff member, who wishes to remain anonymous, told Mirror Money he is worried about the working conditions amid the ongoing coronavirus pandemic.
"The country has been told Amazon will continue to stay open to provide their customers with essential items," he explained.
But staff are working on more than just essentials, he added.
"We are selling the same usual stuff we would do normally with a large increase in things like garden equipment (lawnmowers, hedge trimmers and chainsaws)."
And that meant he felt his employer was putting him at risk of infection for non-essential items."
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