NHS or Private.

At least now we have a choice. If Trump has his way, the NHS will be on the table in the US trade deal.

Johnson promised to "take back control" and "keep the NHS off the table", but over 300 of his MPs have voted against parliamentary scrutiny and NHS protection in the Trade Bill debate. It will soon be run for profit, and the proceeds will go into the pockets of US shareholders, and those Brits who would sell their granny's health for a share in the spoils. We will end up with a health service like the States - great if you have lots of money or if your work picks up the tab for insurance, not so great if you are retired on a small pension or unemployed.

It still has to go to the Lords. There is a petition asking them to please amend the Trade Bill to give parliament a say over trade deals and protect our NHS. weownit.org.uk/lords-NHS-trade-bill-petition

Thanks for the link Elegran. I can't understand why any politician would vote against protecting the NHS. It's so scary to rhink we could end up like the US. And sad.

Our NHS is so important to the country and I used to think that the private sector was detrimental to it.
If I had waited for the NHS to sort out the BCC on my nose I would still be waiting and instead of a reasonably small dent in the tip I might have had to lose a much bigger chunk.
I did give the NHS first dibs but my GP told me I would have to wait a long time.

The waiting time for certain privately funded operations is about the same as the NHS. I only know this as I’ve just enquired this week. As it’s the same surgeon I’ll save my pennies.

PS due to Covid-19

At least now we have a choice

Correction Elegran only some people have a choice .

I can see no problem if you want to pay. Your money your choice and someone else moves up the NHS line
If one went out to buy a car for thousands of pounds car but said they couldn’t afford to have a private operation few people would say that wasn’t fair.

Quite a few family members work in the NHS

There are so many reasons why it's failing and it's not necessarily lack of money. They could throw trillions at it and it still wouldn't be fit for purpose as is.

We need to look to Europe for a better way to fund our health service.

So much has changed since the NHS was set up. Sophisticated treatment, expensive drugs. State of the art equipment, a larger population. The ability to keep people alive who would have died 70 years ago.

It's a sacred cow and any politician trying to change it will be in for a rough ride.

Tony Blair did start privatising parts of the NHS. So it's wrong to just point the finger at the Tories.

www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.politics

Also all this talk of Trump getting his hands on it.

I don't believe he'll be President for much longer somehow.

To all those 'principled' socialists who are against private hospitals, private schools etc. because it's not fair that others can't afford them .. I hope you don't live in your own privately owned house because that would be extremely ironic!

Quizqueen whats wrong with owning your own home and believing that all children are entitled to equality in education?

It also seems to depend on where you live as to what treatment/s are available/not available on the NHS.

Oopsminty, What Tony Blair did was to attempt to bring waiting lists down by opening up healthcare, meaning that you could be offered your surgery in a private hospital with the NHS picking up the tab. My wife had one of her operations in New Hall Hospital, just outside Salisbury. She told me that whilst she had a private room, those admitted through the NHS scheme had a small ward where they were all put together.

It would be interesting to know if anyone has had any such offer, and, would you take it up?

I wish we'd have remained in the EU. The USA wouldn't have had a smell in. This is the U-turn which Boris had pre-arranged with Trump during the Brexit vote after Boris's closet Remain stance became a thing of the past.

I wish I'd kept the cutting from a few years back when BJ, prior to running for PM was a Remainer. He knew he'd win the vote for PM by the Brexit voters which is why he did it.

Nothing like bluffing your way through is there ? David Cameron knew this as he wrote it in his book.

Surely it is the same surgeons who do both NHS and private operations. So, it is queue jumping, as the time taken for private patients is time taken away from NHS ops.

During winter months when there are broken bones galore, it's not unusual in my area for patients to be operated in the NHS hospital then sent to the private hospital to recuperate as there's usually an overflow on the ortho ward. Patients have said it was like living in an hotel. They got better quicker !!

Don't let the NHS become a privatised system in disguise. Keep out shareholders!

After 30+ years working in NHS I had my knee replacements at a private hospital. The ops were carried out in the evening presumably as the surgeons and anaesthetists worked in NHS. I had been severely debilitated and the prospect of more years of crawling from seat to seat was horrifying. I had to use my NHS retirement lump sum to pay for these. The cost wasn't open ended. I was quoted a price covering absolutely everything so I knew in advance what it would be. It even included equipment I needed back home.
Suffice to say that I was so impressed that I've now signed up for private medical insurance. Interestingly my surgeon told me that he and all his colleagues have it too.

I have 2 friends who both needed the same operation, they live in different health areas and whereas one was told she would have a short wait for an NHS operation the other was told years. Rather than wait she decided to pay. They had their operations within weeks of each other, Done by the same surgeon, in the same private clinic where he treats NHS and private patients. One was free, one cost several thousands.
I used to be really against private healthcare, but I am wavering. I do worry that the main patients in NHS hospitals will become the elderly, those with long term conditions, those whose money has run out and those who never had any, and that these people will receive a lower standard of health care.

A few years ago I was told that I needed cataract operations on both eyes. I was fortunate enough to have the first one relatively quickly, but on my post operative check up I was told that it would be Eighteen months before I could have the second. Fortunately I have the type of health insurance whereby if you are unable to have an operation within a limited period you may have it done privately. It was done within a week in a private hospital by the same surgeon who had performed the first one. The policy is very reasonably priced and also gives me access to a doctor for advice. I do not feel that I queue jumped, but that I gave up my place in the queue to someone else.

Franbern

Surely it is the same surgeons who do both NHS and private operations. So, it is queue jumping, as the time taken for private patients is time taken away from NHS ops.

Franbern, this was my concern, but as others have said, the surgeons that do both private and NHS operations will have employment contracts that stipulate their working hours. The detriment to NHS patients, as I see it, is that the surgeons earn far more privately than they would working overtime for the NHS.

There is another factor in the equation, part of my contract deal at work included private health insurance, that, like my company car, was classed as unearned income and attracted income tax. It has been a regular source of additional income for the taxman.

When we leave the EU you can expect VAT to be slapped on the cost of private medical care. The only reason it isn't so at the moment is because it wouldn't be accepted by other EU member states, particularly those (like France) where healthcare is not centrally provided and payments by patients are much more important.

To all those 'principled' socialists who are against private hospitals, private schools etc. because it's not fair that others can't afford them .. I hope you don't live in your own privately owned house because that would be extremely ironic! I don't think anyone has said this QQ, most people seem 'resigned' to having to pay for procedures which they would have to wait a very long time for on the NHS. This is what we will end up with though, a health system whereby if you cannot pay for the 'non emergency' hip replacement you will be on a very long list, and many on here have reported that some procedures are simply no longer available on the NHS at all. The problem with health insurance is that the two most expensive stages of our lives are the very early weeks and the latter years and as many have testified, premiums can be exceedingly expensive. We have decided not to go down the BUPA route but to just self insure, and if we ever find ourselves needing a hip replacement or cataract removal, we will pay for it. I realise that not everyone can do this, but think it is better financially than paying high monthly premiums for something which may not be used.

GillT57 I suppose though if we were to take that analogy to the furthest extent we could argue that increased numbers of people owning their own house has led to those at the bottom of the housing ladder being homeless, sofa surfing or living in B&B accommodation or even on the streets. For the NHS this would I suppose mean some would not receive treatment or be treated in inadequate premises with no access to expensive medical treatments or drugs, whilst others paid for their operations.

Yes Trisher I agree, and most acknowledge that the policy of selling off local authority housing and not allowing the funds to be used to replace the housing stock has led to the housing problems we have today. I would hope that medical care would not get quite so bad as your last paragraph suggests, but fear that it may with the latest votes against protection of the NHS. Yes, we will be treated for a burst appendix or a heart attack, but all those other non essential procedures which make the difference between living and existing will disappear for those without the means to pay for them. And no, I am not happy about either the housing or the medical situation, but too many people keep voting for a government which is forcing us into this moral dilemma.

The nurses at the private hospital I was in said that overflow NHS patients were seen there too and were treated exactly the same as private patients. NHS clinics also held there at times to try to reduce the waiting lists. Seemed a good NHS /private use of facilities and staffing but doesn't mean NHS is 'for sale'.

I was sent for small surgical procedures to the local private hospital by the NHS. Both times, I was treated identically to all other patients - they only had small individual rooms.

This hospital has been increasingly used by the local NHS for all sorts of smallish day care surgical procedures. Obviously done well as they have been able to extend their premises considerably,

When I took a friend for post-op appointment, we all sat in a large waiting area. She was seen more than two hours after her appointment time. We saw several people coming in and reporting to reception, sitting down and going in to their Doctor within a few minutes. I checked each of these as they came out, and all then went to reception and used their credit cards to pay. So, private patients were treated very differently to those majority coming (and being paid for) by the NHS.

I feel very embarrassed if I am told to attend a private hospital or place for NHS treatment , and really prefer not to do so.