GPs and opening times, whats going on

Some of the comments on here show just how entitled some people are

Not sure if that was hurled at me, maddyone

Do you think my friend was entitled?

She had symptoms. She rang her GP many times over many months. She could never get an appointment despite quite obvious symptoms.

So she went to A&E as I mentioned.

Stage 4 cancer was found.

You think she was entitled?

And actually, pre-Covid we could ring up and get an appointment on the same day. Possibly not with your named GP but one would always be available. The virus has caused rationing and rightly so. But there needs to be more care taken and GPs need to make more of an effort to see patients.

If they're not careful we will see that we don't need them and get GPs just to answer calls.

I expect a professional service

Our doctors are amongst the best in the world, and they are sought after by many other countries. That’s why the NHS is haemorrhaging doctors to Canada, Australia, New Zealand and elsewhere. My daughter and her husband are leaving next month to go to work in New Zealand for a year, and when they experience the better conditions of service out there, it wouldn’t surprise me if they decide to stay. That’s two less GPs in the system.
If people want a better system, it has to be paid for by the public. That means you and I need to pay more tax. Massively more tax because to improve the service to the level of New Zealand for example, would cost an enormous amount of money. There GPs are only expected to work 36 hours per week and they are given 15 minutes per appointment. That means they see fewer patients than British GPs per day but have longer to spend with each patient. Each patient has to pay a small amount for their consultation. Perhaps that’s the way forward. Ten pounds per face to face consultation perhaps?

suziewoozie

There is absolutely no excuse for the appalling service suffered by grow and others, none whatsoever. Firstly the online system that many surgeries have should be mandatory. That then leaves the phone lines free for those unable to access or use the internet. The service I’ve had all year is excellent but absolutely possible for every surgery and there are no excuses.

There are no excuses suzie but there is a reason. There are not enough GPs. We have lost some who have died of Covid and others are choosing to go to work in other countries where conditions of service and pay are better. This country haemorrhages GPs but you don’t hear about it. I know because three members of my family are GPs. Unless and until we improve the situation for GPs nothing will change, and it will probably get worse.
Nonetheless I have had excellent service from my GP and the Practice.

Some of the comments on here show just how entitled some people are

Well actually maddyone we are entitled.
We’ve paid our NI contributions, we pay our taxes and we [expletive deleted] well are entitled to receive a safe service that doesn’t make us feel as though we should grovel in gratitude.
You seem to blame us the public for the government underfunding and NHS management failures.

It isn’t only patients who are entitled. NHS staff, the doctors and nurses who provide the service, having given years of their lives training, and incurred considerable debt doing so, are entitled to a working environment that allows them to practise to the high standards they have been taught and that doesn’t compromise their professional integrity. I often wonder how many of the cases which come before the GMC and other professional bodies are actually victims of the NHS system and whatever failings they have manifested wouldn’t have happened if they weren’t working in such a pressured environment.
Just google Dr Hadiza Bawa-Garba if you’re wondering what I’m on about.

I realise the the pandemic has put time constraints on GP practices. But phone consultations are not the way forward as you seem to think. A good GP will pick up far more from a face-to -face consultation than what the patient actually says.

Sorry but your post has made me angry.

I have a couple of consultants in my family, maddyone

They are extremely worried about the massive drop in cancer referrals from GPs

It's an horrendous situation and tragic for the 16 GPs who have died from Covid.

But we are going to see a vast rise in deaths from other causes . Some surgeries have been brilliant and remained open as best they can.

But there's a lot that are failing

Personally I'd be quite happy to pay £10 for a face to face appointment, even more if need be

But many people won't be able to afford that

We either have an NHS or we don't

I'm glad I'm not the only one janeainsworth.

Gannygangan The trouble is if you paid £10 to jump the queue you'd be pushing others even further back.

growstuff

Gannygangan The trouble is if you paid £10 to jump the queue you'd be pushing others even further back.

Exactly, growstuff

Which is why this payment suggested by maddyone is unfair in a country where we have an NHS.

How can it be right that those who can pay get seen and those who can't end up in pain/ill/dying?

Also this business of GPs rushing off to better climates. Despite the tuition fees they pay, they still get a whole lot of. their training paid by the taxpayers.

On average, it costs about £600.000 to train a GP.

How about increasing taxation, especially for high earners and owners of substantial assets, and funding it properly?

And sending some of them for a crash course at a charm school?

It’s pointless being angry with me for speaking a truth people don’t want to hear. Be angry about the chronic underfunding of the NHS over years. It’s no use just blaming Boris Johnson, this has gone on with successive governments over years and years.
And no, we’ve not paid sufficient in taxes to provide the kind of service that patients want and doctors want to provide. So many people think that because they’ve paid their NI contributions that they are then entitled to a full pension and free NHS care, plus social care for those who need it. When will people understand the NI contribution doesn’t even cover your pension, let alone the medical care that most people need as they grow older.
Yes, your post makes me angry. Just the level of entitlement that I’m speaking of.

In her role as a GP, my daughter has had patients demand a prescription for........sun cream! I kid you not. And demands for.......nit lotion! Again I kid you not.
And some people think the public don’t feel themselves entitled!

The ridiculous arguments made by some that there shouldn’t be a small charge for a face to face appointment are really unbelievable! How the (expletive deleted) do you think countries such as New Zealand manage? They make a small charge to see a GP. And New Zealand is held up as an example to us all of how a well managed society operates. There’s absolutely nothing either untoward or wrong in paying a small charge to see a GP. Many other countries do this, in fact most in Europe do this. Why not Britain? A small charge, not to the doctor, but to the NHS, would help towards employing more GPs. We pay to go to the dentist, why not the doctor?

maddyone in recent years, the word ‘entitled’ has come to mean having unrealistic expectations which aren’t deserved or merited. That was the sense in which you were using it about posters on this thread.

I haven’t seen any of that sort of entitlement here, or indeed on Gransnet generally. Posters want only to have their health concerns addressed in a timely fashion, and be treated with dignity and respect when they do turn to the NHS.
I think that is the least we are entitled to as human beings, whether we’ve paid taxes or not.

growstuff
Taxation should be increased. But not just lump it on to others (the easy way, I don’t need to pay, others can pay for me.) High earners and ourselves need to pay more for our NHS.

Many other countries do this, in fact most in Europe do this. Why not Britain?

Because we have an NHS!

And no, not everyone could afford a tenner to visit the doctor. As for dentists, if an NHS one isn't available, which is almost the norm, people just don't go to the dentist. They have to suffer.

I think there's only one entitled person on this whole thread!

...whether we’ve paid taxes or not.

The NHS has to be paid for. Doctors and nurses cost money. Until everyone realises that the NHS isn’t free, we’ll go on talking about this. And all the time we are losing doctors and nurses to work in other countries where they are valued properly. You may not be aware, but there are several agencies set up specifically to aid doctors moving to other countries. I know this because my daughter and her husband have used one such agency. These agencies wouldn’t exist if large numbers of doctors weren’t leaving this country.
Perhaps you could consider why so many doctors have had enough of the situation in Britain. Perhaps you could consider what could be done to stop it. But without understanding of the problem, there will never be a solution. And by reading Gransnet, I conclude that the problem isn’t even acknowledged, let alone understood.

I think there’s only one entitled person on this whole thread.

If you don’t like the message, attack the messenger.

Because we have an NHS.

An NHS has to be paid for. And we don’t have enough doctors.
There’s none so deaf as though who will not hear.

You've been attacking all of us who have dared to disagree with you

Pot, kettle?

I think most people are well aware that the NHS is underfunded.

However this thread is about GPs who aren't seeing patients. Granted, some are. But a lot aren't. Referrals are way down due to this. Which is very problematic if you are concerned about certain symptoms and you can't get a face to face appointment.

Why don't you start a thread about NHS underfunding?

I think our GP surgery does a fantastic job. We have had a triage system for many years. The GP rings back and decides if you need to see him or her. We make separate appointments to see the nurses or for blood tests etc. There is sometimes a bit of a wait for these. DH needs regular blood tests before his hospital appointments and they always manage to fit a blood test in if it's urgent.

We almost always get a same day/next day appointment for a face to face with the doctor if that is necessary. Young children are always seen on the same day even if parents phone later in the afternoon.

The surgery staff have been at the vaccine hub nearly every weekend and now they are doing extra clinics at the surgery vaccinating people under 30. I know this because my own sons have been called for their first vaccine next week.

Grannygangan
How do you know that a lot of doctors aren’t seeing patients? Are you privy to all the information regarding how many doctors see how many patients. And of course referrals are down. There’s a pandemic on. When I was hospitalised with Covid there were 500 plus Covid patients in hospital at the same time as me. 40% of the staff were off sick or isolating. Staff were moved from other departments to work with Covid patients. So other department’s weren’t seeing referrals. It will gradually get back to normal. It really isn’t rocket science. It’s quite easy to work out even if you are lucky enough to have not been hospitalised with Covid.

Mamardoit
The situation at your surgery sounds similar to the situation at my surgery. If you need a doctor, you will see or hear from one, usually the same day.

maddyone

It’s pointless being angry with me for speaking a truth people don’t want to hear. Be angry about the chronic underfunding of the NHS over years. It’s no use just blaming Boris Johnson, this has gone on with successive governments over years and years.
And no, we’ve not paid sufficient in taxes to provide the kind of service that patients want and doctors want to provide. So many people think that because they’ve paid their NI contributions that they are then entitled to a full pension and free NHS care, plus social care for those who need it. When will people understand the NI contribution doesn’t even cover your pension, let alone the medical care that most people need as they grow older.
Yes, your post makes me angry. Just the level of entitlement that I’m speaking of.

But we are entitled maddyone. Your attitude makes me livid. (And, yes, we all know your DD is a GP and works so hard and is emigrating.) And we know you've had Covid, which you wouldn't have caught if your DH had followed the guidelines to the letter, which many of us have.

I am damned well entitled to a decent service from my GP. Not only do I have chronic conditions, which haven't been followed up this year, but I have needed a very rare face-to-face visit. How dare you tell me that I'm "entitled"?

Mamardoit

I think our GP surgery does a fantastic job. We have had a triage system for many years. The GP rings back and decides if you need to see him or her. We make separate appointments to see the nurses or for blood tests etc. There is sometimes a bit of a wait for these. DH needs regular blood tests before his hospital appointments and they always manage to fit a blood test in if it's urgent.

We almost always get a same day/next day appointment for a face to face with the doctor if that is necessary. Young children are always seen on the same day even if parents phone later in the afternoon.

The surgery staff have been at the vaccine hub nearly every weekend and now they are doing extra clinics at the surgery vaccinating people under 30. I know this because my own sons have been called for their first vaccine next week.

So why can't my practice be like this? BTW the staff haven't been at the vaccine hub every day. It's only open once a week maximum and it's mainly the nurses and paramedics who have been doing the vaccinating.

"The NHS has to be paid for. Doctors and nurses cost money. Until everyone realises that the NHS isn’t free, we’ll go on talking about this."

How bl**dy patronising!! Yes, we're all thick. We didn't realise somebody needs to pay for the NHS.