Why are most nurses female?

Caleo

sorry for lots of typos

Quite alright ma'am.

The important thing is that you participated in the discussion and shared your experiences and views, for which I am grateful. Thank you.

Can you say more about hospital decor please, I find that interesting.

How do you mean please?

I have seen somewhere that having each room door a different colour helps patients find their way around.

Curtains round beds, plain or colourful stripes?

Art on the walls?

sorry for lots of typos

The time is not ripe for male nurses to bath women of any age.
Especially an elderly woman! This is an example of cost-cutting that is bad for patients.

When I was nurse if a woman was to be intimately examined by a male doctor she had a female nurse not only to assist the doctor but also to chaperone and reassure. The very good ale nurses I knew in the late 40s early 5os were never in female wards. Attitudes ahve changed but not veru much and patients' comfort is the forst consideration. Can you imagine the Queen would be bathed by a male nurse!

Elderly Person wrote:

" I know that in everyday life there is the men's changing room and the women's changing room and so on, and that in hospital things are often different, yet there is a delicate balance between everyday and hospital and in my opinion that should not be disregarded."

I agree, and also how hospital decor and staff uniforms should reflect the special surroundings that a hospital is. What makes it special is that patients have to hand over much of their personal autonomy to the staff , and the decor and personel of the establishment should reflect its special status, so as to reassure the patients.

It's because, like teaching and social work, it's poorly paid.
Traditionally males were held to be good at making money, while women were supposed to be good at being kind and good at looking after others in practical ways.

Also traditionally most often women are held to be the workhorses while men give the orders and do the clever work. You can see this attitude also in the stories Jane Austen told about how women could not inherit entailed family money. Also in some of the Bronte's stories.

Elegran:

When I went into training school, nurses were paid while they trained. It wasn't a fortune, and we had to buy our books and shoes, etc, but as in industry, male student nurses had a higher pay than us, did the same hours, lived in the nurses' home and ate the same food.

When it appeared that after finishing training, the nurses went abroad, the NHS could not afford to train nurses who left, so now they have to take out student loans like everyone else.

That aside, once when I attended the cardiac clinic, the young African doctor who was learning was in the room and when he came to fix the electrodes on, he asked if he could put them where my bra was, so I said ''Wait 'til I brush the crumbs out'' and he stifled a grin, so I said ''You are allowed to laugh, you know, and they all laughed.

ps: I have had carers and helpers for 35 years, and am speaking from experience.

Katie59

Whatever females were in the past, they are not now. I have a male carer, who is kind and loving and cheerful, though last week someone called him 'my friend' and for some reason I had to correct them.

The majority of female carers are not at all kind now. They are bossy, think they can say and do what they like. That is not all. When my carer went to Africa before Christmas I had a woman come in, and - foolishly as it turned out - gave her a key. The first time she presented me with the bill was when she came in early in the morning, and left without waking me up, and despite my saying no, she did the same another time. On one occasion she asked to clean the bathroom, and the next day she was wearing a diamond cross around her neck, which I was wearing myself just a month before, but changed it for another cross. I had the few pieces of jewellery which had not been stolen, in a case in the bathroom (which was not visible) and when I looked, the cross had gone. You cannot say anything to these people, because you cannot prove it was there in the first place. It was not the first time. She did no cleaning, and the next time I woke up to the sound of the washing machine finishing (it plays a tune), and she was scrabbling around searching through the cupboards and drawers the other side of the bed. I got up without looking in that direction and went to the bathroom, but saw her rush out of the room. When I came out, the washing machine had just started washing clothes, with hardly any clothes in it, so when I woke to hear it finishing, it was her washing! I don't mind that so much, but she had taken advantage of my kindness, and had she done some cleaning, it would be better. I gave her a key because on occasion I had had to get my carer in an emergency and he could let himself in. There was another problem, that she never mentioned that she was also working in a care home, and should have been more careful with protection. I am 80, and disabled since 1987, and to think my health was at risk at a time when vaccines were a pipe dream, was scary.
I have had many women from agencies who, though not quite as brazen, were very bossy. You lost your independence very quickly if you let it continue. I had to pluck up a great deal of courage to get rid of them.

Another thing women do is to put everything out of your reach. Why, I do not know. It is very common indeed. Cups and glasses put on the top shelves, and things you never need on the bottom. Why? I know several 'carers' put almost all the mugs out of reach, leaving me with just one, so that I would not leave so much washing up to them. At £25 an hour, I should be able to use as many mugs and dishes as I like, or anything else that I want them to do. I do not think any of them realise how difficult it is sometimes to stand long enough to wash up.

When my late husband needed care the women the SS sent in were disgraceful. They did not take their coats off, stunk of booze and cigarettes. I had no right to complain, apparently.

Men like to please.

and everybody pretend that the nurses have not noticed his
private parts
Elderlyperson I'd only start worrying if there were no "private parts" for the nurses to notice and they'd forgotten to give me the leaflet before the procedure!.
OoRoo

Thank you.

Ah yes, I saw the green top with the word DOCTOR in white before the world changed.

Well, customised scrubs would be possible as a bulk order arranged by the government.

Do the doctors, nurses, healthcare assistants all wear the same colour scrubs, or does the colour indicate the role?

Staff do wear badges where my dd works and she always introduce herself - that’s standard good practice as taught in med school.

She has to wear scrubs provided by the hospital so no chance of anyone having their job written on them!

I think she’s now resigned to having to repeatedly explain her position and also to tell people she’s not twelve years old. Though one elderly man told her she’d left it too late to marry and have children - she’s 25! ?

Elderly Person do you have some medical procedure coming up which is preying on your mind? (Not prying, so don’t answer if you don’t want to) but I can assure you that 1) your dignity and modesty will be respected, 2) you will be given clear instructions about what to do and if it involves undressing and putting on a hospital gown, you will be given privacy to do this 3)) if you are still unsure about how far to strip down a simple “Pants on or off?” should be easy enough to ask.
The nurse will not be embarrassed nor will she in any way embarrass you - so please do not worry.
If an MRSA groin swab is to be taken and you are not sure about whether to drop your pants, you can ask “What will that involve?”
So don’t stress about it!

Suppose he asks "how do we do this? What's the protocol?" or asks "What do you want me to do?".

MawBe

^Are there any nurses here who can give an insight from a nurse's perspective please?^

I get the impression that some have.

I am meaning in relation to whether a male patient should ask if they are alright about seeing him naked. Does a nurse feel that it is helpful if a male patient asks, or would they rather he does not ask, or are they happy if he either says something or says nothing on the basis of being happy for him to do what he feels most comfortable doing? If he does say something, how should they reply and should they thank him for his courtesy in asking, or what?

Are there any nurses here who can give an insight from a nurse's perspective please?

I get the impression that some have.

Yes, you said what to do. That was good, clear.

Yet if the nurse or HCA just says "I need to take a swab sample from your groin", the male patient may well not know whether he should move his clothing and to what extent such moving is needed or whether to leave it to the lady to do any moving of clothing.

I couldn't agree more Mawbe. If someone is really ill I doubt they care who sees what, they just want to get well. Yes all nurses are taught to preserve the patient's dignity.
I remember once I had to take MRSA swabs from the nose and groin from a very handsome fit young man. I told him all he had to do was pull the leg of his underwear up but he insisted on dropping his pants. He was obviously very proud of his physique (and rightly so). I however simply took the swab without batting an eyelid. Not sure what reaction he thought he would get from someone old enough to be his mother! It is work related nothing more!

For many women it would not be a trivial. They would not be able to have the procedure.

It is not a matter of being prudish, I accept that it has to be done. It is a matter of trying to be polite, often to a lady who is many years younger than him. Yes, she is in uniform, on duty and there is a need, but she is female and the male patient needs to take her underlying basic female sensitivities into account. Yes, she probably sees lots of men naked, but that is not a license to a male patient to not take her basic underlying female sensitivities into account: he may well feel a need to try to do and say what he can in the circumstances to cause her to feel that she is being treated with courtesy and consideration notwithstanding the circumstances.

But if, say, a male patient knows that a nurse is going to arrive to give him an enema, when she arrives does he say "Shall I get undressed then?" and wait for her reply, or should he wait until she asks him to get undressed, or what?

I know it is not personal to them, I am just thinking that it can be awkward for the male patient to know what to do or say so as to be polite in a situation that is unusual for him.

I suppose female nurses and female healthcare assistants find that male patients deal with it in various ways and I suppose that they adapt as to whether or not to say anything according to the situation that arises and what to say so as to put the male patient at his ease as best they can.

Are there any nurses here who can give an insight from a nurse's perspective please?

After an emergency serious operation, I was given a bed bath by a male nurse and my mother had to wait while he finished.
She told me she didn’t think it was appropriate but I wasn’t bothered in the slightest. In fact he was the kindest out of all the nurses throughout that horrible period.
If you are really ill, you don’t pay heed to what is in fact a triviality.
I imagine there might be problems culturally when a woman/man of a particular religion forbids it, it would be interesting to know what happens in this situation. As far as I’m concerned it would be just making more work and inconvenience for the already hardworking staff.

Exactly MawBe when training nurses or care staff dignity, respect, privacy were keystones in the training process.

Oh for heavens sake ElderlyPerson -nurses , whether male ir female have *seen everything*- they are not worried by bums, willies, tits or arses! They have cleaned up faeces, urine, blood and vomit and it is not personal.
You do seem excessively prudish about your body parts!!
My DH spent many months over a period of over 20 years in (mostly teaching) hospitals - I would be discreetly ushered out of his room for the more intimate things but he was always treated with the greatest courtesy by the nursing staff. Curtains would be drawn and privacy afforded if he was undressing himself, but when things were serious or life threatening, honestly your modesty is the last thing on your mind.
And yes, the nurses, HCA’s etc were all trained to do what needed doing and respect the dignity and self-respect of the patient.
All you lady Grans out there- cast your minds back tge Labour ward, to ante natal or gynae examinations- where you left your dignity at the door on the way in and picked it up again, if you were lucky - on the way out! ???

MawBe

^I think it would be helpful if male patients entering hospital were discreetly given a leaflet to read, with a title such as "Male patients and female staff: a guide to protocols^

That would, in my opinion, be helpful to both male patients and female staff, because everyday outside of hospital polite customary behaviour protocols are not compatible with the necessary activities of female nurses and female healthcare assistants regarding male patients in hospitals.

What do people think of that idea?
Well not a lot.
Whatever happened to courtesy, good behaviour and decency?
Do some people need a leaflet reminding them about that?

Well, if a make patient is in bed and the female staff approach, remove the bed clothes, remove the gown and bed bath him, well, it is easy enough for him to say nothing and everybody pretend that the nurses have not noticed his private parts.

But if they enter and he needs to do something, like removing clothing, it may be that if, say, they are all in their early twenties, or that he is elderly and they are young, should he say something like "Are you alright seeing me naked?" trying to be polite, or should he just remove his clothing and say nothing? If he says that, should the female respond with "Yes, I'm alright, thank you for asking." or what?

The nurse might well not say "please remove your clothes" but might say "I need to get some swab samples to check for MRSA" or something like "I need to examine you." and thus the male patient might not quite know what to do,

My suggestion was not oriented to informing men to behave themselves, my idea is because the male patient is trying his best to be polite about it all in for him very unusual and maybe new circumstances, not quite sure how to proceed or what to say, if anything.

Are female nurses and female healthcare assistants specifically trained about how to proceed with such activities as to what to say, or how to respond if a male patient hesitates or if he gets a bit unsure of how to proceed? Or are they just "expected to know".