Prescription Charges

No I am not saying they should be stopped. I am saying they should not be means tested. Universal. Free to everyone.

I may or may not be muddled in my thinking. I'm not pretending to be an economist or a politician, I am discussing on a discussion board.

What I am saying is not that I want people on low incomes to suffer - in fact I would rather there were much higher benefits and pensions - but that I do not approve of systems that take away from people who have saved into pensions simply because they have done so.

That does not mean that I am not aware that there are those who have not been able to afford to save. It just means that I think that those who have done so should see the benefit of their savings - the two are not incompatible.

We are a rich country, and everyone should have a decent standard of living. I would 'pay for' a better pension system by taxing at a higher rate, scrapping the 'household income' benefit system and replacing it with individual taxation for all adults who are not exempt, and individual rights to benefits and pensions.

That may not be something you (or many people!) would vote for, but as this is just a discussion and not a manifesto, I don't see why it matters.

Welshwife

1 Family Allowance is now called Child Credit and it's clawed back from high earners.

2 Nobody receiving NHS treatment in the UK pays thousands of pounds for a prescription.

Doodledog

Oh, and I also believe that everyone should have a decent pension, so there is no need to have Pension Credit.

How would you pay for it?

I don't remember saying that you have no right to an opinion, but you do seem somewhat muddled in your thinking about those on low incomes.

Doodledog

Not if there are no means tests for 'in kind' benefits. I don't know if that is the right term, but I mean 'things' as opposed to cash, if that makes sense? So bus passes, prescriptions and so on - as well as social care, which I also believe should be free.

I may be being over-sensitive, but you have said on here before that you think I have no right to an opinion about these things as I have never lived on the poverty line, so I am wondering if the last line of your last post was a dig at me. It's true that I haven't. I have never been rich, either, but I still feel that I have a right to an opinion, don't you?

I'm sorry, but I still don't understand you. You're saying that all "benefits in kind" should be stopped and presumably replaced with a cash payment. Presumably this cash payment would go to everyone, whether they needed it or not.

I cannot see why the tax system is not used more to iron out some of the differences as to who should receive what. I don’t know if it is still done today but when I was young there was a clawback system used for family allowance. It was paid to the mother and the father through the tax system paid it back via clawback if he earned enough. My father explained this to me and the system was still in place when I had my children. If everyone had things such as the bus pass to use people with a larger income could pay a form of clawback.
I think all prescriptions should be free - if you are unlucky enough to get cancer the drugs can cost easily a couple of thousand pounds per cycle - in other words every three weeks. This amount does not include the drugs administered at the hospital.
Here in France everything to do with cancer is paid for by the State but you do still get a statement showing how much scans and medication cost - also the cost of staying in hospital etc. In my case the initial stay in hospital cost about £13k and only something like a thousand of that was the cost of the room and food. The first prescription was between £2-3 k.
People who are ill should not have the worry of paying for their prescriptions on top of everything else.

Oh, and I also believe that everyone should have a decent pension, so there is no need to have Pension Credit.

Not if there are no means tests for 'in kind' benefits. I don't know if that is the right term, but I mean 'things' as opposed to cash, if that makes sense? So bus passes, prescriptions and so on - as well as social care, which I also believe should be free.

I may be being over-sensitive, but you have said on here before that you think I have no right to an opinion about these things as I have never lived on the poverty line, so I am wondering if the last line of your last post was a dig at me. It's true that I haven't. I have never been rich, either, but I still feel that I have a right to an opinion, don't you?

Doodledog

I think that prescriptions should be free to everyone, and that no 'in kind' benefits, such as bus passes and social care should be means tested.

I didn't say that everyone should receive 'the same'.

Well, what are you saying? If people aren't means tested, those in need receive nothing or you give everybody the same.

welbeck

Do you have more than £16,000 in savings, investments or property?
The property you live in doesn't count.

from the same form.
it;s not yearly income, it's total savings, which are needed if one has to live on less than ten pounds a day, to pay bills, upkeep etc.
so its still a no. but someone might not have known of the scheme.
as usual, the devil is in the detail.
some people cannot imagine how others live and just make sweeping statements.
not you growstuff.

welbeck If you have more than £16,000 in savings it's true that you won't receive help with prescription costs, although just over £2 a week would be the least of my worries.

Thank you for excluding me from your criticism welbeck, as I am well aware how difficult it is to live on a low income. My savings are below £16,000. My income (including pension) is only just over the threshold for paying tax. I am not eligible for Pension Credit. I have to pay rent and my income after housing costs is less than £100 a week, which I use for bills, food, my car and everything else.

I agree with you that some posters really don't have a clue.

Prescriptions are also free for everyone here in NI and have been for about 12 years. I get 14 prescriptions each month and appreciate this.
I think the cost of administering them may be part of the reasoning.

Nanna, thank you, I have completed the form.

Yes, £16000 is not a lot when it has to pay for so much.

I don't know how people think they can tell others what they can afford. It's not just that it's impossible to know, it's intrusive and presumptuous; and in the end, the result will be to reduce everyone but the rich to poverty, which is what I think the aim of means testing is to do.

Do you have more than £16,000 in savings, investments or property?
The property you live in doesn't count.

from the same form.
it;s not yearly income, it's total savings, which are needed if one has to live on less than ten pounds a day, to pay bills, upkeep etc.
so its still a no. but someone might not have known of the scheme.
as usual, the devil is in the detail.
some people cannot imagine how others live and just make sweeping statements.
not you growstuff.

I think that prescriptions should be free to everyone, and that no 'in kind' benefits, such as bus passes and social care should be means tested.

I didn't say that everyone should receive 'the same'.

Doodledog

growstuff

In that case, you presumably think your MIL should receive the same benefits as her friend.

Maybe. I don’t know. I suppose that’s an argument for UBI.

It just think that when people go on about others being ‘able to afford’ things they lose sight of the fact that for many people, affording one thing means doing without something else - it’s so short sighted. I am not arguing for anyone to face cuts, though.

So if you're not arguing that some people should have cuts, but that everybody should receive the same, you must be implying that everybody should receive the same as those on benefits currently do ... unless you have some other solution, which I haven't thought about.

wellback Anybody with an income below a certain amount (can't remember the actual figure but it's about £14,000 a year) is eligible for the NHS's low income scheme without being in receipt of specific benefits.

There is help available for those on low incomes. Carer's Allowance on its own doesn't give you eligibility. It depends what on whatever other sources of income you have.

We don't ask about these benefits because they do not entitle you to help with NHS costs:

Personal Independence Payment (PIP)
Armed Forces Independence Payment (AFIP)
Disability Living Allowance (DLA)
Incapacity Benefit
Attendance Allowance
Carer's Allowance
Housing Benefit
Child Benefit
Council Tax Benefit

the above extract is from the form for HC2, free prescriptions, dental etc, fron NHS Business Services page.

services.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/check-for-help-paying-nhs-costs/benefits
so as informed at dentists and pharmacy, oticians, there is no help for those in receipt of carers' allowance, aged under 60.

I have filled in the online questionnaire, We won't be able to afford the prescription payments, we each have 4 lots of tablets to take it will cost us a fortune! it would be different if people got their state pension when they were supposed to get it, it would help with the cost.
say if someone should have got their full state pension at 60 and had worked full time but now have to wait until they are 66 or over i would dread to add it up and just see how much money they have been done out off and totalling it up for everyone who have been done out of years of pension it must run into millions of pounds, haven't they got enough out of us pensioners!! what will happen is people will go to the GP they will need a prescription to get better but if they cannot afford it they will just bin it and probably end up in hospital for weeks costing the NHS even more it's beyond belief

growstuff

In that case, you presumably think your MIL should receive the same benefits as her friend.

Maybe. I don’t know. I suppose that’s an argument for UBI.

It just think that when people go on about others being ‘able to afford’ things they lose sight of the fact that for many people, affording one thing means doing without something else - it’s so short sighted. I am not arguing for anyone to face cuts, though.

I’m very glad that I’m 68! I take seven different types of medication per day so if I had to pay, the cost would be astronomical.

In that case, you presumably think your MIL should receive the same benefits as her friend.

I agree with Oldwoman70 that we should ask those on low incomes, as those who are ‘able to pay’ are often very free and easy about telling others what they can afford.

I will never agree that the answer is means testing. Not because I am ‘disparaging’ about people on PC - not at all - but because it is unfair to those who don’t get it and miss out on all the benefits.

I know that anecdotal evidence is annoying, but as an example my MIL is 96 and worked until she was in her 70s (when her husband hit 65 and retired). She has a small pension which keeps her out of PC, unlike her friend who did not work after having her children in the 1950s, and does qualify. The difference is huge, as the friend gets so many concessions that MIL does not.

I don’t want to see the friend’s money cut, and I am not saying that she is not deserving, or any of the things that people always seem to read into whatever I say about means testing.

I just don’t think that people like my MIL should be comparatively worse off because they have worked.

M0nica

Doodledog but the same thing happened when the retirement age was 60 - and often mandatory, no choice like today.

I have said often and I will repeat. I think all the bells and whistle, free prescriptions, winter fuel allowance, free bus passes, I used to say tv licence, but that has already gone ,should all go.

The Pension Credit limit could then be increased sufficiently to ensure that those now on PC are not out of pocket. Raising the PC limit, say, £30 a week, would then bring many more people into the PC net and those above it, of which I am one can pay for all these things out for themselves.

I have always it considered it demeaning to older people that we are given these carefully ring fenced benefits, as if we could not be trusted to do make our own decisions about how we spend our money.

Also pensioner benefit from these benefits is variable from person. if you do not get regular medication you lose out on free prescriptions. Some people through disability or the absence of buses cannot benefit from free buspasses, and have to rely on taxis or running a car, or a voluntary car service, for which they receive no monetary aid to balance against those using buspasses.

But pension credit at the moment is only about £2 less than the basic state pension, in todays money people on pension credit would get £207.10 a week this is more than someone on the basic pension of £179.60 so the basic state pension would have to be increased to the same amount as means tested pension credit cannot be higher than the contribution based state pension, factor in the fact that more and more people will only get the basic due to the 2016 rules no matter how many years they pay NI that's going to be a lot of pensioners being paid £30 a week extra for what?? benefits they already get on a pension of £30 a week less.

Where on earth have you got the idea that you lose out on free prescriptions if you don't have regular medication that's simply not true, at the moment there are ways people under 60 can get free prescriptions 2 are income based, either being in receipt of qualifying state benefits including WTC and UC or qualifying for the NHS means tested low income scheme also certain medical conditions enable people to get free prescriptions using a medical exemption card, none of these also has an requirement for people to also be on regular medication in order to qualify, there is a prepaid certificate that makes it more cost effective for people on regular medication as you pay a flat rate, but that's it.

Some people can be so disparaging about 'people who have not paid into extra pension schemes'. Many people on Pension Credit are there for verymany different reasons.
Myself, I stopped paid employment when I became a foster parent. Back then, we did not receive actualy payments for this, just expenses - but it fitted in well for my situation. I fostered very many young children, a couple staying for years. Also brought up our own children and as hubbie (became worse and worse with his MS was his (unpaid) carer.

I really feel that I did 'pay in' to the state system. Returned to part-teimepaid employment at the age of 61 -69 years of age. So my state pension is very much short of the full amount, therefore I claim and receive PC.

Yes, this does give me some automatic other benefits - assistance with eye and dental appointments, Council Tax relief, tv licence and the extra (at present) £140. annual help with my leccie.

Personally, I agree with Monica and would like ALL these little extras (including that very silly £10 Christmas 'bonus'). I am sure that the cost of administration of these 'extras' is very high. Have we not been told that to try to change the Winter Fuel Allowance away from everybody - to the poorer pensioners would cost too much?

I also think that most local bus services would be happy to run their own pensioner discount tickets to try to keep buses busy during working hours.

As for prescription charges, I find them disgraceful - thought we were supposed to have medical care and treatment free at the point of use. Sadly, I know many working people who just do not collect their GP prescriptions as they cannot afford them.