Private medical insurance

I don't think any professional doctor would view his patients as either plebs or toffs. Let's face it, we are all slabs of meat once on the operating table. Patients are patients whatever.

My mother was in Charing Cross Hospital Fulham and after talking with her the consultant got out of the chair and sighed that he had to go up to the 15th floor to visit his private patients. When my mum questioned it he said it wasn't half as interesting talking to the wealthy up there!

No doubt consultants put up with inconveniences both ways.

I’ve been waiting 17 months now for surgery for a condition that impacts my life. Apart from when we’ve had private treatment because we were domiciled abroad, we’ve never used private facilities. However, after 17 months, I’m beginning to think I pay have to pay out for treatment.

The private medicine market here is very small and in fact, the nhs took over the only private hospital anyway during the pandemic. I don’t know if it’s been returned to non-NHS use now.

The cost has to be weighed up against other things. My condition is worse now than it was 17mths ago, may require a different procedure, is having quite an impact on my wellbeing and also affecting my wider family because I’m not able to do certain things to help them.

The government has given us the NHS we have but it also permits private health care, so it seems unfair to castigate people for playing by the rules we’ve been given.

I promised myself not to comment again yet here I am

I don't castigate individuals for their choices SueDonim. But I strongly criticise a system that makes people think that spending a bit of money is the only way to get the medical treatment they need. I will also strongly criticise people who think that's the way it should be.

I would rather be treated in the NHS than privately for anything.I'm afraid restaurant standard food, larger TV etc cut little ice with me. I would rather be somewhere with an ITU in case of complications. I would rather there was someone on site at all times with expertise in my specialty, not just generalists once the surgeon who operated has gone home. Also the juniors who are managing things "back at the ranch" are senior registrars who have done at least 5 years since qualifying as doctors, who do the same operations as the consultants, who are totally up to date and most (if surgical, which is what we are discussing) will be ambitious to be consultants themselves and so will be really at the top of their game and probably doing as many ops as the consultants they are training with.

This sounds like castigation, Alegreias. Keep telling yourself someone else will benefit from your altruism.

As it happens, I don’t particularly agree with private healthcare, either, but living in the real world, people have to do what they can with the tools at their disposal.

I’ve heard today of a young mother of two children who is now facing terminal cancer because the NHS would not take her concerns seriously. She paid for a private MRI, and has been given this dreadful, dreadful news. Maybe if the NHS had given her a scan back in March, her children would not be facing a future without their mother.

If a person has to use private healthcare because they feel they have no choice, it's not for me to criticise. If somebody says that by doing it they are helping someone else less fortunate than they are, all bets are off.

You can increase national insurance payments, but any extra will very quickly be mopped up as further treatments emerge.

Increasing National Insurance is the worst way to raise money for anything, whether it be health or social care.

Firstly, National Insurance payments are capped, so the wealthiest pay a lower percentage than people on low incomes.

Secondly, National Insurance isn't paid by those with unearned income such as rental income, nor is it paid by pensioners, some of whom are much wealthier than the average person of working age.

Money should be raised through the taxation system.

I doubt anyone (amongst us mere mortals, not necessarily the billionaires) has private health care because they think it frees up a place for someone else. I’m not sure it does, I think it simply shuffles the cards differently.

However, the nhs uses private care, too. My dd had her wisdom teeth removed on the NHS but in a private facility. I’d prefer that money be used to provide better NHS facilities but I don’t make the rules.

valdali all very fine and dandy and most noble, but you are forgetting the immense amount of money the NHS pays out to patients every year when things go wrong. It might have intensive care units on site etc etc, but it doesn't stop it doing the most appalling damage to men, women and children every year. As I have said my DD nearly died last year because of NHS incompetence.

I had my cataract operations done privately, even though at the time they were available on demand on the NHS. I did this because a friend was blinded in one eye following a cataract operation in the hospital I would have gone to and when I went fell and cut my eye on my glasses, A&E took no notice of me telling them I was allergic to all eye fluids with preservatives in them and they should use special ones without preservative. When I physically stopped them sploshing something I was allergic to all over my eye, their best suggestion was that I hold a pad of cotton wool over my eye during the procedure.

Under the circumstances I decided my eyesite was too precious to trust to that NHS hospital, no matter how wonderful its intensive care unit.

SueDonim

I doubt anyone (amongst us mere mortals, not necessarily the billionaires) has private health care because they think it frees up a place for someone else. I’m not sure it does, I think it simply shuffles the cards differently.

However, the nhs uses private care, too. My dd had her wisdom teeth removed on the NHS but in a private facility. I’d prefer that money be used to provide better NHS facilities but I don’t make the rules.

Posted in this thread:

My belief is that for those that can afford it, private treatment takes some of the pressure off the NHS

As a bonus someone else gets my place in the NHS queue

There is a shortage of all medical staff. Brexit caused many to leave and the new pensions scheme for retirement has changed, meaning doctors are retiring younger. Therefore, I don’t understand why the government is still ‘capping’ this year again, the number of students with A-level grades, who are wanting to get into university, to study medicine. Surely, students should be welcomed with open arms, as they are so badly needed now, considering the long waiting times for treatment. This would stop the need for a private work. Moreover, nurses and others should have their studies free or reduced, after signing a contract, to not discourage worthy people.

Because there is at present no limit to demand, there is never going to be enough for the NHS, there is always going to be those that don’t get treated or even die.

That’s their belief, Alegrias. I don’t happen to share it, but do people really choose private treatment over NHS for that reason? I’d have thought most choose it out of frustration with the alternative.

Mokryna there’s a cap on the numbers of student medics because there’s a limit to the facilities available. You can’t just stuff lecture theatres full of students, you need laboratory facilities and spaces for clinical learning too. Then, when they’re qualified, there currently aren’t enough jobs for them unless the government chooses to increase the numbers.

We’ve relied on overseas doctors coming here in the past but I imagine they’ll be needed in their home countries during the pandemic.

Callistemon

A lot of firms offer private medical insurance and I'm glad you were able to make use of it Blossoming.

I'm shocked that you were castigated on here for doing so.

I totally agree.

Alegrias1

I promised myself not to comment again yet here I am

I don't castigate individuals for their choices SueDonim. But I strongly criticise a system that makes people think that spending a bit of money is the only way to get the medical treatment they need. I will also strongly criticise people who think that's the way it should be.

Its not a case of being made to think it.
Unfortunately it is sometimes the only way to get it in a reasonable time.

Unfortunately it is sometimes the only way to get it in a reasonable time.

Which is fine if you have the money.

And those who don't? Do we just shrug our shoulders and think, "thank God it's not me"?

SueDonim there’s a cap on the numbers of student medics because there’s a limit to the facilities available. You can’t just stuff lecture theatres full of students, you need laboratory facilities and spaces for clinical learning too.

I am sorry but I really don’t understand. Why does the information on the BBC news website say that it’s Exeter university who have asked the students to delay their entrance to next year and not the government. It says that the numbers admitted to the course are regulated by the government. The university knows if it has places as it them that accepts the students.

True, in France the universities are overflowing but students are given the choice to home study in some places. Moreover, it’s a different system here, that is to say all students who pass the bac have a right to a place whereas in England the choice is made by the university.

I do know of a French science student studying in England who because of the pandemic was sent home to study here, they sent her the equipment to carry out the necessary tests.

It's probably only a very tiny percentage who self-fund their private medical treatment. The majority of private patients are in company schemes, so perhaps they feel more detached from the moral argument. The money is deducted from their salary so they don't even need to shell out as such.

Companies need to keep their employees productive and absent from work for as short a time as possible. That's why they pay for PMI. Time is money in business and an employee who is incapacitated for weeks waiting for an NHS op is a financial drain on the employer.

I once worked in a shiny new private hospital for a few weeks. Private rooms, carpet on the floors and the crusts were cut off the sandwiches. The down side was no ICU and no doctors available overnight. If there was an emergency they had to depend on the NHS hospital a few hundred yards away. It was fine for simple referrals for NHS operations like sterilisation, which my friend had done there. I wouldn't have wanted to go there for much else.

I don’t really understand your query, Mokryna. The government puts a cap on the number of medical students each year. This year they’ve increased places by a few hundred. Each university has its own number within the govt limits. If the uni accepts more than its designated number it gets no funding from the govt to cover that. Also, there are students this year who had places deferred from last year, bumping 2021 numbers up, too.

The only way for the UK to have more medical students is for places to be funded.

mokryna

There is a shortage of all medical staff. Brexit caused many to leave and the new pensions scheme for retirement has changed, meaning doctors are retiring younger. Therefore, I don’t understand why the government is still ‘capping’ this year again, the number of students with A-level grades, who are wanting to get into university, to study medicine. Surely, students should be welcomed with open arms, as they are so badly needed now, considering the long waiting times for treatment. This would stop the need for a private work. Moreover, nurses and others should have their studies free or reduced, after signing a contract, to not discourage worthy people.

Government are not capping this year , they are increasing places to accommodate the rise in applications.
www.gov.uk/government/news/extra-places-on-medical-and-dentistry-courses-for-2021?back=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fclient%3Dsafari%26as_qdr%3Dall%26as_occt%3Dany%26safe%3Dactive%26as_q%3DThe+government+are+increasing+places+for+medical+dental+and+nursing+courses+this+year%26channel%3Daplab%26source%3Da-app1%26hl%3Den

Having spent my NHS retirement lump sum on having two knee replacements and a hip replacement in a private hospital, I'm interested in this conversation. I went ahead with the private route as I was increasingly immobile. There was something about wanting to have a bit of control too.
However, I was speaking to a German friend of my age and who had the same ops. She was very scornful of our systems both NHS and private and felt that she would have been much better looked after in Germany.
The NHS has become a sacred cow I fear. There's nothing wrong with a rethink about it, how it's funded and run. It certainly shouldn't be profit making but it could be better managed. Worth looking at German and French schemes.

Kali2

Systems in Germany and other European Health Insurance systems are very different to the ones emerging in UK. The main difference being that pre-existing conditions cannot be refused. It pays for a single room, larger TV, restaurant style menus, etc. which is fine, no problem with this.

Lincslass, irrational? How patronising.

Firstly I haven’t read all contributions but I just wanted to point out that our European neighbours have always used private insurance to fund their health service. It was set up in the 1870s in Germany for some workers.

Part of the deal was that these insurance companies were obliged to pay out to provide relevant treatments with no get out clauses. This system gradually grew to accommodate the whole population. This is why their insurance system is so robust. No get out clauses.

I’m very much against any insurance system that can pick and choose what it can cover. If any of our governments wish to change our system then it should be under these terms. Not a pick and mix system!

I was forced to use Private Health because my GP refused to diagnose me with an illness I had all the symtoms of. Wasn't cheap but imagine where I would be now if I hadn't seen a private doctor.

I still pay for my medication.

Lincslass, there is still a cap on the number of medical students. It’s being raised but it still limits numbers.