Private medical insurance

9000 euros isn't much at all, is it?

Ah, if you have an income of less than 9000 euros (single person) or 13,500 (two people) medical care is free.

If you own your own property this counts as income, so can take you above the free limit. So most pensioners are above.

It’s quite a low level. Less than our minimum wage?

Antonia

*What if you are a single parent with 3 kids who lives on minimum wage and can't afford €2000 a year?*

I believe the French system allows for low income families and payments can be adjusted.

I’ll look it up. I’m in to this now ?

What if you are a single parent with 3 kids who lives on minimum wage and can't afford €2000 a year?

I believe the French system allows for low income families and payments can be adjusted.

Peasblossom that sounds like a reasonable system.

The alternative is to pay a lot more tax to fund healthcare for all, which is again a good system.

^SueDonim I think many people only use privare health facilities for specialist consultations and minor treatments, rather than for in-patient treatment*

I'm not sure that is correct, M0nica as many people I know have used private healthcare or paid outright for non-urgent surgery.

monica is spot on
she obviously knows how consultants have to follow strict rules when signing up to private practice

they are not even allowed to discuss private options during NHS clinics other than to refer the patient to their medical secretary to make an appointment

it would be good if kali2 could provide evidence

mokryna. Sorry.

Well, it’s been quite interesting today on Gransnet. I’ve been off looking at the French system on Google. The WHO rated it as one of the best in the world.

I suppose my question is would we tolerate the changes that would bring us closer to the French system.

70 % of cost is covered by the State scheme. Patients must either cover the remaining cost themselves or take out additional insurance.
I can see this discourages those who visit the doctor for minor ailments, but it must mean some don’t go when they should.

Retired people continue to pay into the State scheme at a lower level (3.5% of their pension) and continue to pay the 30% for treatment and prescriptions.
This would raise quite a bit of money, I would think.

Investment in major equipment like MRI seems to be a separate Government funded thing rather than from hospitals.
Google seemed to suggest this could mean travelling distances to major cities where centres of equipment are situated rather than in smaller hospitals.
But I don’t know how accurate that is.

I don’t know how monrkas friend pays none of her costs. A charitable donation maybe?

Anyway, food for thought.

SueDonim I think many people only use privare health facilities for specialist consultations and minor treatments, rather than for in-patient treatment.

As for paying, I do not think many people have health insurance, unless through work. More and more people, even retired people, pay from savings or income. The kind of visits we have paid for, which is mainly consultations may well cost less than £500.

We opened a savings account about 10 years ago that we put a fixed sum of money each month, specifically to pay for such consultations. After 10 years there is a significant sum of money there, that we see as dedicated to paying for any private healthcare we need. However, It is all ours to do what we will with and if need be the money can be used for other purposes if necessary.

The last time we used it was last summer after NHS incompetence brought our daughter to the edge of death. Even after they rescued her at the last moment, her GP was still unwilling to dsicuss the underlying problem with her, what treatment was likely or when it would happen. We paid for her to talk to a consultant. He worked in the local hosiptal so could access her medical records. He discussed what the problem was, the range oof solutions and which would be the besand most likely in her case.

This consultation gave her peace of mind and understanding of her medical condtion and its treatment. She continued her treatment on NHS. She neither jumped any queues, nor got any special advantage from it. I think it cost us £350.

If a doctor was seeing private patients in NHS time, either he wouldn't be in the hospital at his usual clinics, which would draw peoples attention, or he would have to feed them in to the normal NHS system, which would mean other staff being complicit with what he was doing

It is possible a patient paid for a private consultation as we did for DD and then continued with the NHS and waited their turn like everybody else, but when seen by the consultant, would be known to him and some of the necessary tests may already have taken place and the results were available at the appointment.

Unfortunately without Kali2s evidence, we have no means of knowing.

SueDonim

*Lincslass*, there is still a cap on the number of medical students. It’s being raised but it still limits numbers.

The capping of numbers creates a shortage which in turn opens up the call for people to take out private insurance. The government have for many years been underfunding the health system in order for the NHS to break.

In the French system my friend who doesn’t have any money has all medical treatment free. She goes to the doctor, hospital and has treatment like I do in the same places but doesn’t pay a cent.

Peasblossom

If Kalis “observation” has given her proof that NHS doctors do private work in their contracted hours then that would be fraud, a criminal offence and cause for dismissal and prosecution.

A serious allegation.

So come on Kali. Name and shame. Let’s get the proceedings started.

Or maybe admit you just made it up?

Kali2 was asked for some kind of proof or corroboration the last time that she made this allegation. It wasn't provided then Peasblossom and I doubt it will be provided this time. I've decided to take every such outlandish accusation with a large pinch of salt.

People now think that we have to have PMI because the NHS is so underfunded and so stretched. That's the real problem.

I had no idea so many people had health insurance until I read this thread! I don’t know anyone who has it, that I’m aware of.

I’ve heard of the Benenden company as I’ve had fliers in magazine, but coming from Kent, I had assumed it was something only in the SE of England. ?‍♀️ How do they make money on it with such cheap premiums?

The key contractual points for doctors working in the private sector are:

you must ensure that your private practice or fee-paying services do not result in a detrimental effect on NHS patients or services, nor diminish the public resources that are available for the NHS.

you are obliged to disclose any private practice commitments to your employer.

if you wish to undertake private practice, you must first offer your employer an additional programmed activity (PA) over and above your standard commitment. If you choose not to offer this additional PA, this would be one of the grounds for an employer deferring pay progression in a given year.

I don’t think I sad you were stupid.

Just if you have a long list of doctors who are doing private work in NHS hours, that should be reported. Don’t you think?

If it is dealt with, then more NHS patients will receive treatment.

So please tell me why would you have proof and not report it so that action can be taken.

Why not name a coup,e right here and now?

Or just be evasive because………?

Peasblossom, you have NOOO idea!

And the list would be too long... and I am not stupid either!

I say again we are doing the only thing we can afford and going with Benenden.

Which anyone can join; it's not confined to the Civil Service and Post Office employees any more.
Other schemes are available which are similar, it's a kind of safety net scheme.

Those who are in those schemes also more than likely pay tax too to help fund the NHS.
So do those people who pay for full rivate medical insurance/care but do not use the NHS, therefore contributing towards the care of others.

^I think most people would be prepared to pay that amount if it guaranteed first class care and short waiting times.
You might even prefer to do this over having a sky sports subscription.^

Sometimes comments just leave me speechless. They almost make me laugh, almost.

I say again we are doing the only thing we can afford and going with Benenden.

Now if I was a member of a certain family I wouldn't have to worry at all because these poor folk who can't afford private health care would pay for mine!

If Kalis “observation” has given her proof that NHS doctors do private work in their contracted hours then that would be fraud, a criminal offence and cause for dismissal and prosecution.

A serious allegation.

So come on Kali. Name and shame. Let’s get the proceedings started.

Or maybe admit you just made it up?

I agree too.

I think the difference is between having a properly funded system, where as many people as possible get access to the healthcare they need, and a system which depends on the better off buying their way to better health.

If a properly funded system means more tax, or insurance schemes such as the French have, whatever, then that is the way to go. But a system that allows you to jump the queue, or get better care, just because you have a bit of money, isn't on.

The red mist comes down for me - you probably guessed that

The NHS has become a sacred cow I fear. There's nothing wrong with a rethink about it, how it's funded and run. It certainly shouldn't be profit making but it could be better managed. Worth looking at German and French schemes

I agree Aveline

Other countries seem to be able to run simultaneous schemes but to mention any kind of private insurance, another way of funding or restructuring here in the UK elicits shock as if we suggested euthanising Granny.

We don't want to go back to pre-1948 healthcare but healthcare has changed without recognition since those days.

A painter is likely to have key man insurance if their business depends on them doing the work themselves.

Kali2's post above is spot on. People now think that we have to have PMI because the NHS is so underfunded and so stretched. That's the real problem.

Wow exactly A.
The painter won't be able to feed his kids if he is laid up for 20 weeks or more.
Sky was an example of other things to spend money on.

Kali2

And I truly can't blame you for doing so.

But it is time for people to realise that the system is currently designed to have this result.

This, this and this again.

Well said Kali2

LadyGracie

We’re with Benenden and DH had his cataracts done at no cost to ourselves, bar monthly premium, he had been waiting 2 years for an NHS appointment with a consultant and was virtually unable to see when the operations were carried out.

We are too. I've been paying it for years, DH has benefited but not me as yet although I know it's there in case NHS waiting lists are long for some non-urgent treatments.