Private medical insurance

Interestingly, we both saw doctors at the same time for ‘things’ on our faces that could have been malignant - we’d spent many years in very hot climates so it was entirely on the cards.

Witzend I was seen within 9 days by the NHS for a thing on my leg which the GP thought could be malignant.
It wasn't, but it was lucky that I was seen quickly as it was a vein which needed cauterising and it would have been dangerous had it erupted totally. They did it there and then.

I will say again - we do need to pay more for the NHS. I don't think many people would complain at a small, ring-fenced, increase in taxes for those who do pay tax.
And chase up tax evaders.

And I truly can't blame you for doing so.

But it is time for people to realise that the system is currently designed to have this result.

We’re with Benenden and DH had his cataracts done at no cost to ourselves, bar monthly premium, he had been waiting 2 years for an NHS appointment with a consultant and was virtually unable to see when the operations were carried out.

Had a very busy and amazing week-end- so just catching up now.

''Awful how people will make things up and how easily total falsehoods get spread and repeated.

But then thats politics isn’t it?''

Nothing made up, I can assure you. And nothing to do with 'politics' but 40 years of close-up observation.

Wow.

The temerity of some people. Wanting Sky. Its a disgrace.

And these people wanting to feed their children, they just need to re-assess their priorities, that's all.

Not everyone paying PMI is well off. Say you are a self employed decorator who wants to get rapid treatment for any illness to get back to work. £60 per month would be well worth it to get back up your ladder as quickly as poss. You might even prefer to do this over having a sky sports subscription.

Isnt it all about priorities? Or peace of mind.

Lincslass

Alegrias1

I think most people would be prepared to pay that amount if it guaranteed first class care and short waiting times.

What if you are a single parent with 3 kids who lives on minimum wage and can't afford €2000 a year?

Don’t know about the French system, possibly similar to Germany. There all have to have insurance, this will explain it better. wise.com/gb/blog/health-insurance-germany

Their health care system is a separate entity though, not in with general taxation, all the population have also to contribute to social care.

Thanks Lincslass

Its the throw away comments like everyone would happily pay €2,000 a year that get me. (I paraphrase) Lots of people don't have €2,000 a year to spend on anything, so just saying we should move to a system like that is unacceptable. It makes me think that there are many people who have no idea how disadvantaged people really live.

BTW, I used to live in France.

The problem for most of us on here is that insuring older people would cost a lot more than £2000 a year, so we would either have to find significantly more or be consigned to a second tier service like the uninsured if America.

That, or the government would make us sell our homes before or after death with a means test, giving us no choice in what to do with our money. Again, the rich will be fine, the poor will be catered for somehow and the ‘just about managing’ will be put back in our collective place.

Alegrias1

^I think most people would be prepared to pay that amount if it guaranteed first class care and short waiting times.^

What if you are a single parent with 3 kids who lives on minimum wage and can't afford €2000 a year?

Don’t know about the French system, possibly similar to Germany. There all have to have insurance, this will explain it better. wise.com/gb/blog/health-insurance-germany

Their health care system is a separate entity though, not in with general taxation, all the population have also to contribute to social care.

Having worked in Germany long time ago, employees each month paid a health tax/old age pension/unemployment and church tax.(if you wanted a particular denomination service or burial.). The amount you paid was clearly printed on your pay slip each month so you knew what amount was going where...you also had a choice of health providers and you could choose and transfer. Can't say enough about German wide healthcare and, GPs also were trained in another specialty e.g. varicose veins and so you could book appts with a GP who could perform this treatment in the surgery...also the Well Woman Check each year which was a routine and not an additional cost to employees.

I wonder how many people who voted for no tax rises, ie Tories, are now paying around £100 per month for private medicine? Totally your own choice of course, but if a lot of us paid an extra say £20 a month to the NHS rather than private health insurance perhaps the NHS would be better able to deal with everyone. I know it is a multi facteted problem, we are all living longer, eye wateringly expensive treatments and procedures are now available, premature babies survive, but if we want to keep it, we need to fight for it.

I think most people would be prepared to pay that amount if it guaranteed first class care and short waiting times.

What if you are a single parent with 3 kids who lives on minimum wage and can't afford €2000 a year?

Worth looking at German and French schemes

I don't know about the German scheme, but I have experienced the French system and it worked well for us.
At the time we were there, a doctor's appointment cost €23. All payment was partly refunded, 70% by the state and 30% by a top up insurance that you paid for. I believe we paid roughly €2000 a year for both of us.

People might say that's too expensive, but it was very good value when compared with the USA. It covered all health interventions including prescriptions.

I think most people would be prepared to pay that amount if it guaranteed first class care and short waiting times.

Lincslass, there is still a cap on the number of medical students. It’s being raised but it still limits numbers.

I was forced to use Private Health because my GP refused to diagnose me with an illness I had all the symtoms of. Wasn't cheap but imagine where I would be now if I hadn't seen a private doctor.

I still pay for my medication.

Kali2

Systems in Germany and other European Health Insurance systems are very different to the ones emerging in UK. The main difference being that pre-existing conditions cannot be refused. It pays for a single room, larger TV, restaurant style menus, etc. which is fine, no problem with this.

Lincslass, irrational? How patronising.

Firstly I haven’t read all contributions but I just wanted to point out that our European neighbours have always used private insurance to fund their health service. It was set up in the 1870s in Germany for some workers.

Part of the deal was that these insurance companies were obliged to pay out to provide relevant treatments with no get out clauses. This system gradually grew to accommodate the whole population. This is why their insurance system is so robust. No get out clauses.

I’m very much against any insurance system that can pick and choose what it can cover. If any of our governments wish to change our system then it should be under these terms. Not a pick and mix system!

Having spent my NHS retirement lump sum on having two knee replacements and a hip replacement in a private hospital, I'm interested in this conversation. I went ahead with the private route as I was increasingly immobile. There was something about wanting to have a bit of control too.
However, I was speaking to a German friend of my age and who had the same ops. She was very scornful of our systems both NHS and private and felt that she would have been much better looked after in Germany.
The NHS has become a sacred cow I fear. There's nothing wrong with a rethink about it, how it's funded and run. It certainly shouldn't be profit making but it could be better managed. Worth looking at German and French schemes.

mokryna

There is a shortage of all medical staff. Brexit caused many to leave and the new pensions scheme for retirement has changed, meaning doctors are retiring younger. Therefore, I don’t understand why the government is still ‘capping’ this year again, the number of students with A-level grades, who are wanting to get into university, to study medicine. Surely, students should be welcomed with open arms, as they are so badly needed now, considering the long waiting times for treatment. This would stop the need for a private work. Moreover, nurses and others should have their studies free or reduced, after signing a contract, to not discourage worthy people.

Government are not capping this year , they are increasing places to accommodate the rise in applications.
www.gov.uk/government/news/extra-places-on-medical-and-dentistry-courses-for-2021?back=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fclient%3Dsafari%26as_qdr%3Dall%26as_occt%3Dany%26safe%3Dactive%26as_q%3DThe+government+are+increasing+places+for+medical+dental+and+nursing+courses+this+year%26channel%3Daplab%26source%3Da-app1%26hl%3Den

I don’t really understand your query, Mokryna. The government puts a cap on the number of medical students each year. This year they’ve increased places by a few hundred. Each university has its own number within the govt limits. If the uni accepts more than its designated number it gets no funding from the govt to cover that. Also, there are students this year who had places deferred from last year, bumping 2021 numbers up, too.

The only way for the UK to have more medical students is for places to be funded.

I once worked in a shiny new private hospital for a few weeks. Private rooms, carpet on the floors and the crusts were cut off the sandwiches. The down side was no ICU and no doctors available overnight. If there was an emergency they had to depend on the NHS hospital a few hundred yards away. It was fine for simple referrals for NHS operations like sterilisation, which my friend had done there. I wouldn't have wanted to go there for much else.

It's probably only a very tiny percentage who self-fund their private medical treatment. The majority of private patients are in company schemes, so perhaps they feel more detached from the moral argument. The money is deducted from their salary so they don't even need to shell out as such.

Companies need to keep their employees productive and absent from work for as short a time as possible. That's why they pay for PMI. Time is money in business and an employee who is incapacitated for weeks waiting for an NHS op is a financial drain on the employer.

SueDonim there’s a cap on the numbers of student medics because there’s a limit to the facilities available. You can’t just stuff lecture theatres full of students, you need laboratory facilities and spaces for clinical learning too.

I am sorry but I really don’t understand. Why does the information on the BBC news website say that it’s Exeter university who have asked the students to delay their entrance to next year and not the government. It says that the numbers admitted to the course are regulated by the government. The university knows if it has places as it them that accepts the students.

True, in France the universities are overflowing but students are given the choice to home study in some places. Moreover, it’s a different system here, that is to say all students who pass the bac have a right to a place whereas in England the choice is made by the university.

I do know of a French science student studying in England who because of the pandemic was sent home to study here, they sent her the equipment to carry out the necessary tests.

Unfortunately it is sometimes the only way to get it in a reasonable time.

Which is fine if you have the money.

And those who don't? Do we just shrug our shoulders and think, "thank God it's not me"?

Alegrias1

I promised myself not to comment again yet here I am

I don't castigate individuals for their choices SueDonim. But I strongly criticise a system that makes people think that spending a bit of money is the only way to get the medical treatment they need. I will also strongly criticise people who think that's the way it should be.

Its not a case of being made to think it.
Unfortunately it is sometimes the only way to get it in a reasonable time.

Callistemon

A lot of firms offer private medical insurance and I'm glad you were able to make use of it Blossoming.

I'm shocked that you were castigated on here for doing so.

I totally agree.