Private medical insurance

People now think that we have to have PMI because the NHS is so underfunded and so stretched. That's the real problem.

I had no idea so many people had health insurance until I read this thread! I don’t know anyone who has it, that I’m aware of.

I’ve heard of the Benenden company as I’ve had fliers in magazine, but coming from Kent, I had assumed it was something only in the SE of England. ?‍♀️ How do they make money on it with such cheap premiums?

Peasblossom

If Kalis “observation” has given her proof that NHS doctors do private work in their contracted hours then that would be fraud, a criminal offence and cause for dismissal and prosecution.

A serious allegation.

So come on Kali. Name and shame. Let’s get the proceedings started.

Or maybe admit you just made it up?

Kali2 was asked for some kind of proof or corroboration the last time that she made this allegation. It wasn't provided then Peasblossom and I doubt it will be provided this time. I've decided to take every such outlandish accusation with a large pinch of salt.

In the French system my friend who doesn’t have any money has all medical treatment free. She goes to the doctor, hospital and has treatment like I do in the same places but doesn’t pay a cent.

SueDonim

*Lincslass*, there is still a cap on the number of medical students. It’s being raised but it still limits numbers.

The capping of numbers creates a shortage which in turn opens up the call for people to take out private insurance. The government have for many years been underfunding the health system in order for the NHS to break.

SueDonim I think many people only use privare health facilities for specialist consultations and minor treatments, rather than for in-patient treatment.

As for paying, I do not think many people have health insurance, unless through work. More and more people, even retired people, pay from savings or income. The kind of visits we have paid for, which is mainly consultations may well cost less than £500.

We opened a savings account about 10 years ago that we put a fixed sum of money each month, specifically to pay for such consultations. After 10 years there is a significant sum of money there, that we see as dedicated to paying for any private healthcare we need. However, It is all ours to do what we will with and if need be the money can be used for other purposes if necessary.

The last time we used it was last summer after NHS incompetence brought our daughter to the edge of death. Even after they rescued her at the last moment, her GP was still unwilling to dsicuss the underlying problem with her, what treatment was likely or when it would happen. We paid for her to talk to a consultant. He worked in the local hosiptal so could access her medical records. He discussed what the problem was, the range oof solutions and which would be the besand most likely in her case.

This consultation gave her peace of mind and understanding of her medical condtion and its treatment. She continued her treatment on NHS. She neither jumped any queues, nor got any special advantage from it. I think it cost us £350.

If a doctor was seeing private patients in NHS time, either he wouldn't be in the hospital at his usual clinics, which would draw peoples attention, or he would have to feed them in to the normal NHS system, which would mean other staff being complicit with what he was doing

It is possible a patient paid for a private consultation as we did for DD and then continued with the NHS and waited their turn like everybody else, but when seen by the consultant, would be known to him and some of the necessary tests may already have taken place and the results were available at the appointment.

Unfortunately without Kali2s evidence, we have no means of knowing.

Well, it’s been quite interesting today on Gransnet. I’ve been off looking at the French system on Google. The WHO rated it as one of the best in the world.

I suppose my question is would we tolerate the changes that would bring us closer to the French system.

70 % of cost is covered by the State scheme. Patients must either cover the remaining cost themselves or take out additional insurance.
I can see this discourages those who visit the doctor for minor ailments, but it must mean some don’t go when they should.

Retired people continue to pay into the State scheme at a lower level (3.5% of their pension) and continue to pay the 30% for treatment and prescriptions.
This would raise quite a bit of money, I would think.

Investment in major equipment like MRI seems to be a separate Government funded thing rather than from hospitals.
Google seemed to suggest this could mean travelling distances to major cities where centres of equipment are situated rather than in smaller hospitals.
But I don’t know how accurate that is.

I don’t know how monrkas friend pays none of her costs. A charitable donation maybe?

Anyway, food for thought.

mokryna. Sorry.

monica is spot on
she obviously knows how consultants have to follow strict rules when signing up to private practice

they are not even allowed to discuss private options during NHS clinics other than to refer the patient to their medical secretary to make an appointment

it would be good if kali2 could provide evidence

Peasblossom that sounds like a reasonable system.

The alternative is to pay a lot more tax to fund healthcare for all, which is again a good system.

^SueDonim I think many people only use privare health facilities for specialist consultations and minor treatments, rather than for in-patient treatment*

I'm not sure that is correct, M0nica as many people I know have used private healthcare or paid outright for non-urgent surgery.

What if you are a single parent with 3 kids who lives on minimum wage and can't afford €2000 a year?

I believe the French system allows for low income families and payments can be adjusted.

Antonia

*What if you are a single parent with 3 kids who lives on minimum wage and can't afford €2000 a year?*

I believe the French system allows for low income families and payments can be adjusted.

I’ll look it up. I’m in to this now ?

Ah, if you have an income of less than 9000 euros (single person) or 13,500 (two people) medical care is free.

If you own your own property this counts as income, so can take you above the free limit. So most pensioners are above.

It’s quite a low level. Less than our minimum wage?

9000 euros isn't much at all, is it?

so if you are unemployed in france it has to be free too
that could be a lot of people

I am with Benenden and pay £11.90 per month standard fee. They covered me for a pre existing condition - for a consultation with MRI and that consultant then referred me to a second consultant who carried out further tests. All was covered. I then reverted to NHS for treatment as it would be lifelong.

About £7700. You get extra allowance per child, but I didn’t want to be too nerdy with lots of figures.

How much is unemployment benefit in France, Lillie?

Thank you for that explanation, Monica. I can see how that can be reassuring if you’ve had a bad experience. I guess where I live, the pool of medical professionals is so small, you’d see the same person whether you were NHS or private. You’d need to travel 100+ miles to seek a second opinion, though if you’re at your wit’s end you’d do that, I guess.

Hmm, unemployment benefits in France is a percentage of your yearly earnings. So higher paid workers who become unemployed will still pay for medical treatment because they will be getting over the limit.

I calculate you would have to be earning less than 1000 euros before you became unemployed to qualify for free care. But it was complicated and I could be quite wrong about that amount.

I would think most of the newly unemployed would still pay.

The Observer NHS:

NHS waiting lists could top 15 million in four years without major rise in capacity

Peasblossom

Ah, if you have an income of less than 9000 euros (single person) or 13,500 (two people) medical care is free.

Thank you for looking that up, I wasn't sure of the figures. Only that the cost is dependent on income.

Hi Kali. Are you going to spill the beans?

Or just turn a blind eye to abuse of NHS resources that you’ve seen?

Waiting lists would go down if we could bring those doctors into line,

Many EU health insurance system have free health care for very low earners, and reductions for low earners, especially those with families. And as said, are not allowed to refuse pre-existing conditions

Most have also a 'higher' level of insurance, which doesn't really make a big difference in medical care, but in provisions such as better room, private TV, menu à la carte, etc. - and this level is allowed to refuse pre-exisiting conditions.

No I am not- anyone who is in the NHS at a certain level knows this is so common and the list would be enormous.

If the lists enormous then all the more reason to put a stop to it, don’t you think?

Peasblossom
The key contractual points are:

you must ensure that your private practice or fee-paying services do not result in a detrimental effect on NHS patients or services, nor diminish the public resources that are available for the NHS. There must be no conflict of interest between your NHS and private work
you are obliged to disclose any private practice commitments to your employer. You do not require their permission to undertake private practice
if you wish to undertake private practice, you must first offer your employer an additional programmed activity (PA) over and above your standard commitment. If you choose not to offer this additional PA, this would be one of the grounds for an employer deferring pay progression in a given year. If you decide to cease your private practice, you can also give up the additional PA for your employer with three months’ notice (England & NI).

www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/private-practice/working-in-private-practice/consultants-and-private-practice

I do hope this answers some questions, but, of course, any consultant in breach of the contractual code may risk dismissal from the NHS.

I doubt many would risk this and their integrity, in the main, would not allow it.