Private medical insurance

That’s their belief, Alegrias. I don’t happen to share it, but do people really choose private treatment over NHS for that reason? I’d have thought most choose it out of frustration with the alternative.

Mokryna there’s a cap on the numbers of student medics because there’s a limit to the facilities available. You can’t just stuff lecture theatres full of students, you need laboratory facilities and spaces for clinical learning too. Then, when they’re qualified, there currently aren’t enough jobs for them unless the government chooses to increase the numbers.

We’ve relied on overseas doctors coming here in the past but I imagine they’ll be needed in their home countries during the pandemic.

Because there is at present no limit to demand, there is never going to be enough for the NHS, there is always going to be those that don’t get treated or even die.

There is a shortage of all medical staff. Brexit caused many to leave and the new pensions scheme for retirement has changed, meaning doctors are retiring younger. Therefore, I don’t understand why the government is still ‘capping’ this year again, the number of students with A-level grades, who are wanting to get into university, to study medicine. Surely, students should be welcomed with open arms, as they are so badly needed now, considering the long waiting times for treatment. This would stop the need for a private work. Moreover, nurses and others should have their studies free or reduced, after signing a contract, to not discourage worthy people.

SueDonim

I doubt anyone (amongst us mere mortals, not necessarily the billionaires) has private health care because they think it frees up a place for someone else. I’m not sure it does, I think it simply shuffles the cards differently.

However, the nhs uses private care, too. My dd had her wisdom teeth removed on the NHS but in a private facility. I’d prefer that money be used to provide better NHS facilities but I don’t make the rules.

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My belief is that for those that can afford it, private treatment takes some of the pressure off the NHS

As a bonus someone else gets my place in the NHS queue

valdali all very fine and dandy and most noble, but you are forgetting the immense amount of money the NHS pays out to patients every year when things go wrong. It might have intensive care units on site etc etc, but it doesn't stop it doing the most appalling damage to men, women and children every year. As I have said my DD nearly died last year because of NHS incompetence.

I had my cataract operations done privately, even though at the time they were available on demand on the NHS. I did this because a friend was blinded in one eye following a cataract operation in the hospital I would have gone to and when I went fell and cut my eye on my glasses, A&E took no notice of me telling them I was allergic to all eye fluids with preservatives in them and they should use special ones without preservative. When I physically stopped them sploshing something I was allergic to all over my eye, their best suggestion was that I hold a pad of cotton wool over my eye during the procedure.

Under the circumstances I decided my eyesite was too precious to trust to that NHS hospital, no matter how wonderful its intensive care unit.

I doubt anyone (amongst us mere mortals, not necessarily the billionaires) has private health care because they think it frees up a place for someone else. I’m not sure it does, I think it simply shuffles the cards differently.

However, the nhs uses private care, too. My dd had her wisdom teeth removed on the NHS but in a private facility. I’d prefer that money be used to provide better NHS facilities but I don’t make the rules.

You can increase national insurance payments, but any extra will very quickly be mopped up as further treatments emerge.

Increasing National Insurance is the worst way to raise money for anything, whether it be health or social care.

Firstly, National Insurance payments are capped, so the wealthiest pay a lower percentage than people on low incomes.

Secondly, National Insurance isn't paid by those with unearned income such as rental income, nor is it paid by pensioners, some of whom are much wealthier than the average person of working age.

Money should be raised through the taxation system.

If a person has to use private healthcare because they feel they have no choice, it's not for me to criticise. If somebody says that by doing it they are helping someone else less fortunate than they are, all bets are off.

This sounds like castigation, Alegreias. Keep telling yourself someone else will benefit from your altruism.

As it happens, I don’t particularly agree with private healthcare, either, but living in the real world, people have to do what they can with the tools at their disposal.

I’ve heard today of a young mother of two children who is now facing terminal cancer because the NHS would not take her concerns seriously. She paid for a private MRI, and has been given this dreadful, dreadful news. Maybe if the NHS had given her a scan back in March, her children would not be facing a future without their mother.

I would rather be treated in the NHS than privately for anything.I'm afraid restaurant standard food, larger TV etc cut little ice with me. I would rather be somewhere with an ITU in case of complications. I would rather there was someone on site at all times with expertise in my specialty, not just generalists once the surgeon who operated has gone home. Also the juniors who are managing things "back at the ranch" are senior registrars who have done at least 5 years since qualifying as doctors, who do the same operations as the consultants, who are totally up to date and most (if surgical, which is what we are discussing) will be ambitious to be consultants themselves and so will be really at the top of their game and probably doing as many ops as the consultants they are training with.

I promised myself not to comment again yet here I am

I don't castigate individuals for their choices SueDonim. But I strongly criticise a system that makes people think that spending a bit of money is the only way to get the medical treatment they need. I will also strongly criticise people who think that's the way it should be.

I’ve been waiting 17 months now for surgery for a condition that impacts my life. Apart from when we’ve had private treatment because we were domiciled abroad, we’ve never used private facilities. However, after 17 months, I’m beginning to think I pay have to pay out for treatment.

The private medicine market here is very small and in fact, the nhs took over the only private hospital anyway during the pandemic. I don’t know if it’s been returned to non-NHS use now.

The cost has to be weighed up against other things. My condition is worse now than it was 17mths ago, may require a different procedure, is having quite an impact on my wellbeing and also affecting my wider family because I’m not able to do certain things to help them.

The government has given us the NHS we have but it also permits private health care, so it seems unfair to castigate people for playing by the rules we’ve been given.

I don't think any professional doctor would view his patients as either plebs or toffs. Let's face it, we are all slabs of meat once on the operating table. Patients are patients whatever.

My mother was in Charing Cross Hospital Fulham and after talking with her the consultant got out of the chair and sighed that he had to go up to the 15th floor to visit his private patients. When my mum questioned it he said it wasn't half as interesting talking to the wealthy up there!

No doubt consultants put up with inconveniences both ways.

Entirely your prerogative Katie59. Becuase that's what we've let it come to.

Keep telling yourself someone else will benefit from your altruism.

This is the hill I'll die on.

I don’t much care what anyone else thinks, including Alegrias1, if I have a condition that the NHS won’t fix and I can afford it, I will go private.
As a bonus someone else gets my place in the NHS queue

M0nica

My experience has been that private patients are seen only once NHS work is done. Neither of us has used private medecine for anything major, but our appointments have often on Saturdays or in the evening.

DD had a telephone consultation with a specialist during lockdown. This followed the NHS nearly killing her through incompetence. The phone call was at 20.00 hours.

In other words, once the plebs have been seen to and the real doctors have time to to the job properly.

I have no patience with it, sorry.

It doesn't take resources from the NHS.

Consultants work their contracted hours.
What other resources are you thinking of?

Imagine you need a procedure Call; the hospital tell you that they can do 10 a week and there are 40 people ahead of you so the waiting time is 4 weeks. Or, Dr Smith at St Moneybags Infirmary down the road can do it; they have capacity for 10 a week too, but since you have to pay, the waiting list there is just 10 people so you can have your procedure in just a week! Hooray!

So clearly there is capacity to do 20 a week. But those with the means - personal or through their employer - can jump the queue. If the 20 a week capacity was available in the NHS, people in general would be seen quicker.

Now I'm sure someone will come along and tell me that's not how it works, the capacity wouldn't be there if it wasn't for private money. Well its only that way because we allow it to be, because we think that's how it should work.

I think we should pay more for the NHS too Call, whether through more tax, or a different funding structure, I don't know. But I know that being able to jump the queue and divert resources from people who are not as well off as you is no way to run a Health Service.

Take a look at Benenden insurance. It is not fully comprehensive and will not cover treatment for ongoing conditions. It will cover a consultation with tests and it will cover treatment that will not be ongoing. You have to be a member for 6 months before applying for help. They will for example cover a consultation, tests, and a gall bladder operation or hernia operation.
They covered me for two different consultant appointments with an MRI Scan, an overnight sleep test. But will not cover the Cpap machine because it is ongoing and for that part I’m with the NHS. It saved me from waiting 2 years in the NHS to see the consultant. And saved the NHS the cost of my consultant appointments and the cost of the MRI and sleep test.
All for £11 per month.

My experience has been that private patients are seen only once NHS work is done. Neither of us has used private medecine for anything major, but our appointments have often on Saturdays or in the evening.

DD had a telephone consultation with a specialist during lockdown. This followed the NHS nearly killing her through incompetence. The phone call was at 20.00 hours.

It wasn't my intention to criticise you or make any assumptions at all about your health or your situation Blossoming.

But I won't apologise for what I said. People who have benefited from private healthcare in this country are in a privileged position that not everybody can benefit from.

a couple of years ago i had bowel cancer, i had an appointment and was still sitting there nearly 2 hours later, the nurse said he is running late as he has to see a private patient, when i got to see him i said why was he seeing private patients on nhs time, i had been sitting on the toilet and throwing up in a basin most of the night, but i still got there. i have no problem with health insurance but depending on what is wrong with you, the chances are you will be seen at an nhs hospital with nhs doctors, you will pay for a private room and a better menu, all it comes down to is you are paying for a shorter queue.

Don't a lot of private hospitals also offer treatments that would not be available on the NHS for whatever reason like infertility, cosmetic surgery, gender reassignment.

Alegrias1

I won't castigate you Blossoming, it's not my place. But I will ask you to consider what would have happened you hadn't had that private insurance, but needed that care. If you'd been someone on minimum wage who had no option but to use the NHS. Maybe you wouldn't have made such a good recovery. How is that fair?

You have no clue how good, bad or otherwise my recovery has been. You don’t know what happened, or where I was when it happened, or indeed anything at all about it. Nice try, but I won’t be made to feel guilty for being alive.

Everyone working for the company had private medical insurance, we travelled a lot and frequently worked outside of the UK. It included travel insurance and if you fell ill while working away from home it covered the cost of treatment and getting you back home. Not sure how that impacts the NHS but no doubt someone will be along to put me right!

We used to have private insurance via dh’s job. It was a toss up after he retired, whether to go on paying for it, but we decided to pay as you go, if needed for minor things, reasoning that for anything really serious we’d be OK with the NHS. (This was pre Covid of course.).

Dh has done that several times for relatively minor procedures.

Interestingly, we both saw doctors at the same time for ‘things’ on our faces that could have been malignant - we’d spent many years in very hot climates so it was entirely on the cards.

I was referred by our GP to a specialist at the local NHS hospital within 10 days.
Dh saw exactly the same specialist at a local private hospital, but about a week later!
(Neither ‘thing’ was malignant, thank goodness.)