WAITING Times for GP andNurse Appointments

Last year on a few occasions I had pains in chest when walking, so in October when it happened for a fourth time I called GP. Triage system in use eventually Dr called back, listened to symptoms, said sounds like asthma I wasn’t convinced, could it be my heart ( having googled symptoms) unlikely but to be on safe side he agreed to me coming in & having an ECG. Heart problem discovered - Aortic Regurgitation - & from then on I honestly can’t fault the NHS. Seen several consultants, had various tests, now on 6 monthly checks.

Josianne I record GPs behind closed doors as find it interesting especially the Hall Green Centre (live in same city) it enlightens/educates and amuses/irritates in equal parts as, the services they seem to offer their patients are far better than my present surgery ..perhaps it allocation of monies from different Health Trusts.

To be honest when you watch programmes like "GPs behind closed doors" it does look like a lonely job, seeing patient after patient and trying to resolve their problems. Do full time GPs get a day a week say to further their knowledge in hospitals and to keep up to date? What support do they get within the practice? They seem very isolated in their consulting rooms and I am sure the responsibility weighs heavy. The job needs to be made more appealing especially to modern day doctors.

Another issue with the GP shortage is that many new doctors choose to specialize. If you choose to specialize, the pay is higher, and the setting is more hospital than clinic. They have no overhead for office space or staff (or it is much less).

A specialist that works in a hospital setting will sometimes have her office space paid for, and make almost twice as much as a GP, who has to pay rent and staff. I admit that I don't know how your system works, but I assume it is somewhat similar to ours.

Maddy Firstly I didn’t say that most GPS who are part time are woman. Secondly, I have read somewhere, sorry I can’t give chapter and verse, that again well over 60% of medical students who are accepted into med school are women. I don’t know the reason for this. Perhaps one solution may be to encourage and accept at least an equal ratio of male students who are prepared and able to work full time. I have not suggested in any way that women GPS should not be allowed to work part time. You have brought up the question of gender. But logically if you have a particular profession that has a higher ratio of one gender and that gender choose to work part time there is going to be a shortage. This would happen in any profession. The other question is as you yourself point out that it is mainly female GPS who work part time so what is the percentage of them who return full time after their children are in school full time. I think most people accept that the shortage of GPS is only going to worsen but something has to done and solutions have to be found.

I’m sure everyone can understand the difficulties with women GPs who are mothers of small children. It would take a superhuman effort for them to attempt full time work, and would probably end up so utterly exhausted that they would have to give up.

However, the problem lies not just with women. Male GPs these days also are also only working part time
Not all of them have children, so why aren’t they working full time?

I think this dates back to the Blair government when they were effectively paid more for working fewer hours.

It’s a very worrying problem, and the result seems to be more patients pitching up at A and E out of pure frustration at being unable to get a face to face appointment at their surgery.

My daughter is a mother. When her twins were twelve months old she returned to work as a GP. She worked part time, three days a week. Are you suggesting that with twins of twelve months old, my daughter should have been forced to work either full time or not at all?

My daughter had her third baby nearly four years ago. When he was nine months old, she returned to work three days a week. She then had a nine month old baby and four year old twins, none of whom attended school at that point. Are you suggesting that with three children below school age, my daughter should have forced to either work full time or not at all?

Gwyneth I’m pretty sure that I’ve already explained this to you on a different GP thread, but I’ll say it again. Many GPs are women. Women have babies and take maternity leave. When they return to work, they have the right, like all other women on this country, to opt to work part time. They often choose to work two or three days a week. This right to the mothers of young children is given to all women in this country, regardless of their job. You see to be suggesting that women who are GPs should not be allowed to do this. Can you give me a valid reason why young women who are GPs and who have young children should not be allowed to work part time.

I’m sure we all accept that there aren’t enough GPS but why is that? Yes probably a lot have retired recently but this shortage has been going on for years hasn’t it?

I do wonder why training to become a GP appeals to so few medical students.
They are well paid, and as has been pointed out many times on here, virtually all of them work part time. Yes I accept that there is a lot of ‘behind the scenes’ work and paperwork, but isn’t that the case in whichever line of medicine a medic works?

I’m sure on here we can all remember years ago when our children were small, that GPS worked full time, five, sometimes six days a week.
In fact our surgery was open for a couple of hours on Sunday mornings.
Yes obviously the population has grown hugely, and until the immigration problem is sorted, will continue to grow, but surely we need our GPS to work full time?

No matter how much money is thrown at it by successive governments, the GP situation never seems to get better.

What is the answer?

Gwyneth : I have looked on my surgery website at the staffing facility, we have six GPs that work part-time four of them work
Monday, Wednesday and Friday and the other two work Tuesday and Friday. We have two other GPs that do alternate
sessions when needed. There is a G.P. that does a diabetic clinic Friday mornings.

That means all the G.P.s work part-time which obviously has negative impact on enough G.P.s to the ratio of patients, That
as well as a shortage of G.P.s is stretching all resources to meet the need of patients. I also would like to know what solution could we come to so that this could be improved.
During the lockdown and the worst time of Covid I did not ever contact the surgery and just followed all rules we were given about masks, sanitizer distancing and everything else so was fortunate enough not to have been hospitalized or had any Covid related illness. There was e-mails sent from the G.Ps not to contact them about any vaccinations for Covid as they were not doing them also anything related to Covid they told patients call an ambulance if necessary and if okay stay at home and isolate. My G.Ps are still only semi up and running and appointments have not returned to pre Covid time as yet.

Yes I think everyone agrees that there is a shortage of GPS maddy but what is your solution to the fact that so many work part time? Surely this is causing more work and stress for colleagues who are full time as well as there not being enough GPS to deal with patients. To reiterate my point again no matter how many GPS are recruited and if they all opt for part time work there will never be enough to meet the needs of patients. So again what solution would you suggest. I am genuinely interested.

VioletSky Thank you ..I did and GP referred me to A&E because of new symptoms ..always feel grateful for GP support ..

Gwyneth as I and others have repeatedly pointed out on this and other threads, there is a massive shortage of GPs in this country. This in itself causes long waits for appointments, and huge stress for both GPs and their staff. Many staff who work in GP surgeries have to self isolate as they’ve been in contact with Covid or they catch Covid like my son in law did (he then infected our daughter) and so they have to be at home. I know of one GP who was hospitalised with Covid. You’re right in saying that more GPs need to be trained, but given the bad press, including multiple threads on Gransnet about this, it’s not surprising that the 5000 new GPs we were promised some time ago have failed to materialise. What do people not understand about not enough GPs?

As far as I can tell, The Telegraph, The Daily Mail, and many Gransnetters (which we can take to be representative of the general public) are constantly complaining and moaning about GPs. I’ll say it again.

There are not enough GPs.That’s why it’s difficult to see one of the ones we have got.

I actually prefer to have an initial telephone conversation but I know it doesn’t suit everybody.

I phoned this morning at 9. Asked to see a doctor, told her what’s wrong; I’ll be seeing a doctor at 1.40 this afternoon.
Can’t knock that.

I’m quite sure patients would be ‘happy’ here too maddy if they could be helped. As posters have stated on several threads re this issue, whilst some patients have received good service from their GP surgeries others have not and are suffering and in pain as a result. Yes the government should definitely be doing all it can to recruit doctors but when so many work part time, I believe over 60% then more and more have to be trained and then they go on to work part time and so on it goes. So what is the solution?

Nationally we had a massive shortage of GPs pre-Covid. I'm certain more than the usual number have gone in the last 18 months through stress.
Locally here in 2019, our group were forced to take over the small practice of 2 GPs who retired and could not find replacements, and mine could not recruit to replace one of their own who left. That increased their responsibilities by about 45%.
Presumably these US firms taking over practices is also adding to it all.

My own GP surgery has a very successful triage system in place even though the GPs are working under enormous strain - regularly until 10.30 or 11 o’clock at night. Part of the problem is due to a lack of staff at all levels. Last week our surgery had seven staff off at one time either awaiting COVID test results, or having tested positive for COVID; there is also a high turnover of reception staff, and exit interviews give one of the reasons for leaving as the abuse they get from patients. Doctors are also dealing with a high rate of RSV and other respiratory problems that are not usually this bad until December, and patients are now presenting with a backlog of non-COVID ailments.

Bea did you get to see/speak to someone?

3nanny6 I’m sure you’re right that I have some emotional attachment because my daughter, my son in law, and one nephew are all GPs and all worked extremely hard during the Covid period. My son in law caught Covid because he worked in the Covid Hub, in addition to his normal GP hours. He was often there till midnight after a full day at his Practice. As I said in my post, I’m sure you were not abusive towards your GP, but you would truly be astounded by how much abuse many GPs took, and are still taking.

My daughter and son in law were fed up of the abuse and very long hours, and seeing in the media the constant complaining about GPs and they left to go to work for two years in New Zealand. And do you know what my daughter said to me after her first week working as a GP in New Zealand? She said ‘Mum the patients are so lovely here, they’re so happy that you’ve helped them.’ That sentence should tell us all how GPs are treated by many in the UK.

VioletSky empathise with you about not complaining as when we're already feeling vulnerable there's not much energy left to complain...It seems some are lucky with GP surgeries and others not...its only when you need the service you can feel desperate when not able to get thru or offerred a GP call back..

The surgery rang me today to make an appointment for my BP check, booked in for tomorrow morning! I think it will be with one of the nurses. I was so surprised as the last time they contacted me was for the Covid jabs. I didn’t think they would have started routine appointments again yet.

My GP seriously let me down with misdiagnosis, made me feel like a mentally ill hypochondriac, made my symptoms 10 times worse with the wrong treatment and missed a condition that put my life at risk.

Now I seem to get special treatment as long as it isn't to do with Graves as they don't know much about it.

Seeing a consultant at hospital also impossible so my treatment has been down to me sending them blood results and waiting for a replyfor medication changes to get my thyroid levelled off. Now I have a chance that it has all left me with osteoarthritis, heart issues and some cognitive issues like stuttering and getting my words muddled.

I would complain but I just haven't got it in me.

I feel bad for all of you with bad experiences. In my small town it is much better; the doctors are now seeing patients in office. They are doing some calls and follow ups by phone.

I know in certain areas of our province it is almost impossible to even get accepted into a GP's patient list. Then people have to rely on walk-in clinics if they are available, or they end up in ER (emergency room) which frankly is a waste of health care dollars. But sometimes that is the only option.
We have a provincial phone in medical service that will link you to a registered nurse or pharmacist, but I do think it should be more widely advertised.

I do believe as our population ages the government should expand medical schooling and make funding available. Pay for part of their schooling, or forgive student loans if they work in an area that is short of medical staff, etc.

Lousy GP practice nearly killed DD last summer because given a telephone appointment only the GP forgot to order a vital test. She finally badgered them into it three months later and as soon as they got the result, they rang her in a panic saying she could have a fatal heart attack at any moment and to instantly go to pharmacy and collect medication.