With UK Covid deaths the highest in Europe, is this living with Covid?

Incredible! There's a programme on Channel 5 now about Brits living in France and there's loads of sloppy cheek kissing going on with the local hairdresser wearing a visor. If she does that with every customer, ugh!

Amberone

We were out today at quite a crowded antique fair, equipped with our masks. In the two hours we were there I think I saw about ten other people wearing masks, and I think about 80% of the people there were over 50. There were a number well into their 70s/80s, some of whom looked decidedly frail.

Quite an elderly lady behind us at one of the stands said to her friend "Look at them in their masks, isn't that ridiculous. I hope they haven't got the disease and brought it in here. Do you think they are anti vaccine people?". My OH and I just looked at each other and shook our heads.

I despair of people.

Rosie

We were out today at quite a crowded antique fair, equipped with our masks. In the two hours we were there I think I saw about ten other people wearing masks, and I think about 80% of the people there were over 50. There were a number well into their 70s/80s, some of whom looked decidedly frail.

Quite an elderly lady behind us at one of the stands said to her friend "Look at them in their masks, isn't that ridiculous. I hope they haven't got the disease and brought it in here. Do you think they are anti vaccine people?". My OH and I just looked at each other and shook our heads.

Aveline

Black velvet and diamante mask for the evening wear Rosie? Very elegant.

No I don’t think so I smoke probably set fire to the new frock

Black velvet and diamante mask for the evening wear Rosie? Very elegant.

Let’s hope it’s not too crowded FarNorth but I need a new coat which really have to be tried on Plus we have a black tie event in November and would like something a bit special

I wouldn't dream of going into a crowded shop, even with everyone having masks on as they do here in Scotland.

I am not the greatest fan of mask wearing I hate the ruddy things but I don’t usually go to crowded areas We are going away to York next weekend and the shops there can be crowded common sense tells me to upgrade my mask to a FFP2 mask because if many are not wearing masks an ordinary surgical mask is of little use

My daughter wanted their scouts to wear masks on buses when having trips out only to be told that the government said it wasn’t necessary. It was only when the infection rate went through the roof that they decided it might actually be a good idea (she’s already had to cancel a much needed holiday abroad because of her eldest son catching covid at school but is hoping to have a mini break at half term). She really didn’t want to be sitting in a mini bus with a load of unmasked unvaccinated teenagers. Same with the school. Only reintroduced mask wearing when half the staff came down with covid. Common sense seems to be sadly lacking in England. Stable doors and bolting horses springs to mind….

?

Hello? I'm still here you know....

Aveline

Alegrias knows her stuff re stats and their uses. By the way, just because in England you don't have to wear masks doesn't mean you can't. You can, as we do, choose to wear masks, sanitise and socially distance. We don't need to be officially told to.

Ahem! I'm afraid she doesn't always.

The trouble is with people not being told to wear masks is that they are endangering other people, who can't make others wear them. Others do need to be told officially to wear them.

Alegrias knows her stuff re stats and their uses. By the way, just because in England you don't have to wear masks doesn't mean you can't. You can, as we do, choose to wear masks, sanitise and socially distance. We don't need to be officially told to.

halfpint1

Whatever, as I said I simply looked at yesterday's numbers, no 'smugness' intended, in France and Italy and other countries we follow the guidelines because we have to and they really don't hurt, in the UK,well........

Germany is the same. One of my students lives in Germany and I do weekly Zoom calls, so I have regular updates. Most people just accept that they have to wear FFP2 masks if they go out, even though they are expensive.

Alegrias1

I wasn't being nasty halfpint1, I was pointing out the inaccuracies in your assumptions.

And any sidelong implications that in the UK we don't follow guidelines is a bit nasty, wouldn't you say? One might even say "smug".

What guidelines? As far as I can tell, there aren't any. Everybody seems to be using their "common sense", which in some cases doesn't match my idea of sense.

PS. I'm talking about England.

I agree that nothing's simple (and I've already written that).

However, the means of transmission is well understood. Most transmission is airborne and the most frequent places for people to be infected are in closed spaces, such as the home or school. It's also known that there is transmission from asymptomatic people, often before they then go on to have symptoms.

Armed with that information, it shouldn't be difficult to reduce transmission. Just because somebody "knows" somebody, it doesn't mean that others are safe. We've been given the message that it's safe to do anything and we just have to "live with" the consequences. I don't believe that's the right message. It gives people who would rather turn a blind eye an excuse not to do anything.

I wasn't being nasty halfpint1, I was pointing out the inaccuracies in your assumptions.

And any sidelong implications that in the UK we don't follow guidelines is a bit nasty, wouldn't you say? One might even say "smug".

And Allegra you always jump on my posts in a nasty manner,as I've asked you before please stop it

Whatever, as I said I simply looked at yesterday's numbers, no 'smugness' intended, in France and Italy and other countries we follow the guidelines because we have to and they really don't hurt, in the UK,well........

growstuff

Incidentally, Scotland currently has a lower case rate than most of England. Even the South West, which at one time was relatively unaffected, has higher case rates than Scotland.

Yes, I know. Even though a few weeks ago we had scarily high numbers.

Our peak came earlier.

Seriously, I really don't think its a simple, linear relationship. We wear masks in Scotland, England doesn't, France does. Vaccine passports haven't come in yet in Scotland, but rates have dropped exponentially

Nothing's simple.

I have no idea, given that I'm not an epidemiologist.

But I'm sure people on here will have all the reasons ready to go.

Incidentally, Scotland currently has a lower case rate than most of England. Even the South West, which at one time was relatively unaffected, has higher case rates than Scotland.

No, you're not the only one! I always try to report accurate data.

Why do you think Scotland has a higher case and death rate than France?

Yes they do.

Am I the only one who actually wants the correct data to be used instead of random numbers chosen on specific days that make things look worse than they are?

How about this; Scotland has a higher rate of vaccination that France but we still have a higher rate of cases and deaths.

True statement; doesn't help anybody. No context given.