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Is Gender Critical the new Pro Life?

(752 Posts)
GagaJo Fri 12-Nov-21 16:55:32

I was musing this while playing lego with DGS this afternoon.

Pro life individuals claim to be anti abortion because they want to protect the life of the unborn baby, but resent public spending on the baby once it is born. They're judgemental about single-parents. In the US, they want to deny access to free contraception to women, BUT refuse to hold men accountable for paying child support. Doesn't sound very pro anything to me.

Gender critical individuals claim to 'follow the science' but then refuse to accept any science that shows that human and animal life forms are born in categories other than just male and female. They're critical of other cultures that have accepted alternative gender expressions beyond the binary. While claiming not to be totally anti trans, they want to shut off any access to support or treatment (the hooha about the Tavistock Clinic and Kiera Bell) at a point in a young person's life where it could help them avoid developing the unwanted sexual characteristics of the gender they want to transition from. After all that, they will only accept trans individuals who are 100% post surgery, despite not wanting those individuals to be able to access surgery, hormones or treatment. They also deny the evidence and existence of these individuals historically, prefering to see the visibility of trans as a patriarchal plot to deny cis women their rights.

I'm sceptical. It is a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' position for trans individuals within the eyes of the gender critical, in my opinion.

Let the battle commence.

Disclaimer
I am a life-long feminist.
I will not be responding to demands and insistence for answers.
I will, however, enter into polite discussion.

Galaxy Sat 13-Nov-21 13:50:18

Gagajo. You have not answered any questions, the information you have posted is inaccurate, your understand ing of the topic appears shallow, I am not sure you are in a position to question whether people have thought about this issue.

GagaJo Sat 13-Nov-21 13:47:16

eazybee

I'd stick with the lego and talk to the grandson.
Much more productive.

Ah, rudeness. The preserve of those without a thought out point of view.

eazybee Sat 13-Nov-21 13:33:54

I'd stick with the lego and talk to the grandson.
Much more productive.

GrannyMacawell Sat 13-Nov-21 11:15:16

It was a voluntary question

GrannyMacawell Sat 13-Nov-21 11:14:03

There are no official figures from what I can find. estimate is 1% of uk population ...it was asked on the census...does your gender identify match your sex....not sure when these figures go into the public domain

Gwyneth Sat 13-Nov-21 08:26:58

I was about to ask a similar question Monica what percentage of the population are trans women/men?

M0nica Fri 12-Nov-21 21:40:39

Is there really a vast majority of transwomen/men?

GagaJo Fri 12-Nov-21 21:29:54

she will have very little difficulty in being referred by her doctor with a view to her starting on testosterone which may make her sterile and is very likely to cause severe gynaecological problems in years to come. She will also have little trouble in obtaining a double mastectomy.

That is contrary to the treatment that all of my personal contacts in this area have encountered. Unless they were able to source treatment overseas, privately, accessing treatment via the NHS is next to impossible. Covid of course has massively added to the problem.

FarNorth Fri 12-Nov-21 20:50:18

Btw, do you know that if a young woman of 18 asks her doctor for sterilisation because she is certain that she will never want children, she will be told that she must wait until she is at least 30 and, preferably, has had at least one child.

If that young woman, however, states that she is a boy or a man she will have very little difficulty in being referred by her doctor with a view to her starting on testosterone which may make her sterile and is very likely to cause severe gynaecological problems in years to come.
She will also have little trouble in obtaining a double mastectomy.

I think there needs to be a middle ground in both those situations.

FarNorth Fri 12-Nov-21 20:36:14

Their point is that the 'support' being given is too quick to affirm the supposed gender identity and to begin medical treatment.
Also, that inadequate records were kept and there was insufficient follow-up of the young patients.
The court found that this was true of the Tavistock Clinic.

I hope that the Tavistock has now improved its practices.

Urmstongran Fri 12-Nov-21 20:33:07

Thank you GagaJo ?

GagaJo Fri 12-Nov-21 20:19:39

They are a tiny minority, and are adversely affecting the availability of support for the vast majority that desperately need it.

Very very sad for those individuals that do change their minds later, but that doesn't mean they are the norm.

FarNorth Fri 12-Nov-21 20:09:34

No, it isn't.

I don't know about pro-life people, whether many of them have all the views that you say they do.

Gender critical people, in general, don't have the views that you say they do.
In fact, most gender critical people have none of the views that you say they do.

Gender critical people accept the fact of two human sexes which shouldn't have to be connected to sex rôle stereotypes as they currently are, in many people's minds.

The situations of trans-identifying adults and trans-identifying children & young people are quite different.
Keira Bell took the Tavistock Clinic to court because her experience was that she was not given adequate counselling or information before she was started on hormone treatment.
Sinead Watson is another detransitioned transman who now speaks out in public about this.
Their wish, that trans-identifying children and young people are not hurried onto medication and surgery, comes from their own experiences not from any ill-informed outsiders trying to prevent the expression of trans identity.

GrannyMacawell Fri 12-Nov-21 19:54:12

Do you believe humans can change sex?

M0nica Fri 12-Nov-21 19:48:55

It is not a starting place for discussion, GagaJo. it just shows a such a complete lack of understanding of the groups you want to discuss that rational discussion is impossible.

GagaJo Fri 12-Nov-21 19:48:45

Goad away Peasblossom. I'm not biting. No banning, temporary or otherwise, for me. ?

Peasblossom Fri 12-Nov-21 19:45:04

Doesn’t fool me?

Peasblossom Fri 12-Nov-21 19:44:46

Yup, desperately trying to wriggle out of an untenable position.

Anything except address the question or back up an opinion with fact?

GagaJo Fri 12-Nov-21 19:39:37

If you say so. If you knew me IRL, you'd know better. But whatever...

Peasblossom Fri 12-Nov-21 19:34:57

Mmm, on the back foot now………?

GagaJo Fri 12-Nov-21 19:31:29

You're welcome to think whatever you like Peasblossom.

Peasblossom Fri 12-Nov-21 19:28:59

I THOUGHT I’D HAVE A LITTLE SHOUT TOO.

Ah, that’s better?

Smileless2012 Fri 12-Nov-21 19:26:31

There's no need to shout Gagajo and if you refer in your OP to science you should be able to provide the scientific evidence when requested.

If you're unable too or can't be bothered then don't mention it to support your point of view. Your OP gives no evidence to support your claim.

Peasblossom Fri 12-Nov-21 19:26:26

I think that means there isn’t any?

Obviously not time to answer my question either.

Or anything that might challenge the faulty logic of the original post.

Ah well. Some people will only read the OP and go with that so mission accomplished, I guess
?

GagaJo Fri 12-Nov-21 19:22:22

WHEN I have time to sit down and look for it, I MAY add it.

Otherwise, 1) refer to the OP and 2) do a bit of research yourself SL2012.