Is Gender Critical the new Pro Life?

So just to clarify your compromise is no single sex spaces.

Rosie51

Well VioletSky I'm pleased you read my post of 18.54 and seem to have taken on board my recommendation to use people with autism, not autistic people in your reply to Chewbacca. I am though disappointed you didn't feel the need to even acknowledge my questions which I thought were perfectly polite.

No Rosie51 I genuinely missed you out and when I read back through other things caught my attention.

I just did use it both ways in 2 comments.

I do agree though and it was a slip up. I completed my education late in life.

Mollygo what compromises do I want?

I've asked for the option of seperate unisex bathroom stalls.

I've asked for the option of seperate unisex changing spaces.

I've suggested how refuges can be inclusive without compromising safeguarding or making women feel unsafe.

I've agreed with the personal choice to have pronoun badges.

I've agreed with suggestions of sports participants possibly being tested by hormone levels or by adding more categories.

I've agreed that prisons are problematic but possibly the same approach to refuges could work.

I've agreed that policy wordings should be inclusive and I feel reassured what I call myself and what others call me in person won't change at all.

I don't really care that much if a poster says "cervix haver" but would prefer it to say "if you have a cervix" because I find the first option a tiny bit irritating but I do agree to breach language and education barriers, it might be sensible to add that to "women" I just don't know how to word it.

So please do explain what I am saying that is so terrible?

Well VioletSky I'm pleased you read my post of 18.54 and seem to have taken on board my recommendation to use people with autism, not autistic people in your reply to Chewbacca. I am though disappointed you didn't feel the need to even acknowledge my questions which I thought were perfectly polite.

The compromises you seem to want are all to be made by adult human females giving up rights they’re entitled to by virtue of being adult human females e.g. -safe spaces, free from those who appear and act like men, the right to be called women instead of the names those who aren’t adult human females want to use -I don’t need to type the rest as you already know them.

If you don’t like people’s posts don’t answer them. Nobody forces you to answer.
“I avoid engaging with you I only answer you.”
What do you consider ‘to engage with you’ means?
This is a place where posters post their views and other posters post in support or in opposition. That looks like engagement.

Thank you Gagajo I do really try because I do think these issues are important and I think there are compromises to be made that don't devalue women but actually show our value as inclusive feminists

Chewbacca

VioletSky you're in danger of overstepping the line again. Your previous ban was for similar bullying, harassing behaviour and you're doing it again now. Either keep to the topic of the discussion or I will take action. You've had fair warning.

Who is the bully here?

I avoid engaging with you. I only answer you.

I won't speak for gransnet but I wasn't banned for the reason you claim. I was very unwell which you know.

I'd be far happier if you left me alone.

Chewbacca

VioletSky you're in danger of overstepping the line again. Your previous ban was for similar bullying, harassing behaviour and you're doing it again now. Either keep to the topic of the discussion or I will take action. You've had fair warning.

Where is she bullying and harassing? I think she's been patient and polite. In the face of quite significant negative comments.

I really despair of this site at times.

VioletSky

GagaJo I CBA anymore and it's coming accross in my comments but being inclusive and non discriminatory to people just trying to live their authentic lives, without causing harm to others, matters to me

I feel the same way. And then I feel pathetic for not standing up to them. It's wimping out.

Mollygo women's health is already being put at risk:

A 2017 survey found almost half of women were unable to identify the cervix as the neck of the womb, despite cervical cancer being the most common cancer in women under 35.

A Scottish Government information campaign launched today also says “people” are being urged to attend a test, and that “two people” die from cervical cancer every day.

It adds: "*Cervical screening is offered to anyone with a cervix aged between 25 and 64.*"
Ministers were accused of risking lives by failing to use plain language about public health amid the debate over transgender rights.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Chewbacca

^I suppose that's a really big compliment really.^

It's REALLY not.

I'd forgotten it. I'm glad it was special for you

And it repeated Molly's post?

Sorry.

Sorry, that was to VS.

I am not denying a woman the right to become a man. I am not denying her the right to become an elephant. Neither is possible, so it is not in my gift.

I can, and do, believe that if a woman wants to 'live as' a man, or however else she likes, she should be able to do so unmolested and with no discrimination, however. She still won't become a man, but so long as she doesn't stop me from remaining as a woman, she can crack right on.

trisher @21:21
Who on here denies a woman (adult human female) the right to be a TM. They can’t be a man (adult human male because that’s science.
As a TM, you can still get the health treatment a woman might need because you are still a woman. You can choose a pronoun but the only ones you will use yourself are I, me and my.
People talking to you will only need you and your.
If you look like a woman or a man to the person who is talking about you to someone else, that person will refer to you as he or she. If you want to wear a badge saying I’m a ‘they’ or put it on your form, that’s up to you. People who haven’t read the form will still look at you and quite innocuously use he, or she. There is no other way of doing that unless you are insisting that everyone should be referred to as ‘they’, and that would be very discriminatory.

I suppose that's a really big compliment really.

It's REALLY not.

Doodledog

*If you are the wrong sort you can't choose your pronoun, and you can't have health information specifically designed for you.*

Finally! Yes, this is what we have been saying all along. To TRAs, the wrong sort of woman is one who was born female. She no longer has a pronoun that confirms this, and her sex-based healthcare has reached the point that she can't be sure of a single-sex ward, and is referred to as a 'person with a cervix' instead of a woman.

doodledog can't you actually answer that question instead of twisting the meaning?

If you are the wrong sort you can't choose your pronoun, and you can't have health information specifically designed for you.

Finally! Yes, this is what we have been saying all along. To TRAs, the wrong sort of woman is one who was born female. She no longer has a pronoun that confirms this, and her sex-based healthcare has reached the point that she can't be sure of a single-sex ward, and is referred to as a 'person with a cervix' instead of a woman.

Chewbacca

I know. I remember it from before you were in your current name.

Lol I just saw this because I've been struggling to keep up and failing to multitask.

I suppose that's a really big compliment really.

Just to let you know trisher, it’s EHCP, stands for Education and Health Care Plan. One DGS has one.

trisher

How can you claim to be supporting women's rights but deny them the right to become a man. You are apparently only permitted rights if you are the right sort of woman.
If you are the wrong sort you can't choose your pronoun, and you can't have health information specifically designed for you

This is, as always, a very good point.

What even is the right sort of woman anyway? One that just thinks they are right?

trisher

Gender signals are the things you do, say, or write which give an indication of your gender

Well yes - I understand the meaning of 'signal', but what are gender signals. Can you give an example?

You've referred to the concept twice:
And also that perhaps the gender indicators we use everyday are actually more use in establishing equality than we realise.
What sorts of things that we 'do, say or write which give an indicator of your gender' are useful in establishing equality?

I'm struggling to see what 'gender indicators' have to do with equality. Sex inequality is well-documented, and it's possible that 'gender indicators' might work against this (although I doubt it), but without knowing what you mean, it's difficult to be sure.

The interesting thing (do I really need to explain this) is that mice will not pick up the gender signals given out by the human involved.
What 'gender signals' would humans give out to mice? Again, with a definition to work with it would be easier to see what you mean.

How can you claim to be supporting women's rights but deny them the right to become a man. You are apparently only permitted rights if you are the right sort of woman.
If you are the wrong sort you can't choose your pronoun, and you can't have health information specifically designed for you

It's just that this is not the place to achieve that because too much black and white thinking and there is other places where people are listening and learning