Transgender people who start hormones as teenagers rather than adults 'have better mental health’

trisher

It seems to me if you are not prepared to show respect by using someone's chosen pronoun you really can't complain if they use a term like cisgender even though you don't like it.
If you show respect you will be afforded respect.
Ignore others and they will ignore you.

Where on earth does this come from? Not one person has said they wouldn't use someone's chosen pronoun. Although I expect many of us would refuse if we were in the unfortunate position of having been raped by a man who identifies as female, and only the nastiest of misogynists could expect otherwise. Given that nobody has used the wrong pronouns for VS may we be afforded the respect of her not using the term cisgender?

That should say "access" not "crew" but a whole crew of professionals wouldn't be a bad thing lol

trisher

It seems to me if you are not prepared to show respect by using someone's chosen pronoun you really can't complain if they use a term like cisgender even though you don't like it.
If you show respect you will be afforded respect.
Ignore others and they will ignore you.

This.

Applies everywhere in life, I find.

Has anyone said they won't use someone's chosen pronouns?

It seems to me if you are not prepared to show respect by using someone's chosen pronoun you really can't complain if they use a term like cisgender even though you don't like it.
If you show respect you will be afforded respect.
Ignore others and they will ignore you.

It's a given that everyone's mental health matters but the topic is how we can support trans mental health

By ensuring a crew as to professional support comes sooner, allowing reversable transition earlier, or preventing harassment in school or society in general

Well said Doodledog

Oh goodness me, asking someone not to use a term many find offensive is 'cancel culture' Thank goodness the TRAs only use driving people out of their jobs etc which we are always told is not cancel culture!

VS "everybody's mental health matters or nobody's mental health matters." Paraphrased from Michael Connelly.

Well, I'm not rude, or passive aggressive or playing victim which I find offensive.

And I haven't actually refered to anyone here as cisgender while knowing they were offended by it.

So there we are

Can we draw a line under it now as my mental health matters but the topic is trans mental health

Oh bollocks. It is no more so than asking people to use pronouns that don't match the sex of the person using them.

Most people happily do so out of politeness, which is not a lot to ask. There is no difference between that and being decent enough to refrain from calling people by a term which they have specifically asked you not to do.

This attempt to control the speech of others is cancel culture.

Rosie51

You are assuming that person identifies as a gender. I don't identify as a gender I am a woman, an adult human female. It's insulting to assume a belief I don't have.

The bottom line is, she hasn't used hate speech and it is a term non-gender critical people use. Some of the terms gender-critical people use offend pro-trans individuals.

We cannot cancel each others speech unless it fits within the category of hate speech.

VS, when has someone called you something with which you don't identify? On this or any other thread?

That's your point of view. I don't agree.

Dead gendering is a made-up term to describe calling someone by their biological sex. Calling them something they already are, if you like.

last post to gaga in response to the misgendering post.

You are assuming that person identifies as a gender. I don't identify as a gender I am a woman, an adult human female. It's insulting to assume a belief I don't have.

The definitions of the words mentioned in the Oxford Dictionary shows them to be derogatory terms

So it's not the same.

I've also seen people say they don't like "natal women" either

If I am wrong for saying what I need to feel comfortable in discussion then why am I held to different standards?

I haven't actually used the term in discussion since except to explain its meaning and I see no reason to be offended by it that I understand but let's see if I can thought police myself and if I get the same courtesy in return.

Rosie51

GagaJo The whole 'trans women are not women' offends me .... but that is an accurate scientific statement. Transwomen are men, they have male genetics. The whole 'cisgender' thing is a made up word using a latin prefix that is used in chemistry to describe structure in molecules. It was made up by transpeople who, having chosen their own descriptor, decided they would apply it to others, without any consultation or agreement. That it isn't included in 'hate speech' just follows on from misogyny not being included as a hate crime, disgraceful as that is.

That is your point of view. I don't agree.

Yes it is. Misgendering is dead gendering someone. Cisgender is the same thing a person already is.

GagaJo The whole 'trans women are not women' offends me .... but that is an accurate scientific statement. Transwomen are men, they have male genetics. The whole 'cisgender' thing is a made up word using a latin prefix that is used in chemistry to describe structure in molecules. It was made up by transpeople who, having chosen their own descriptor, decided they would apply it to others, without any consultation or agreement. That it isn't included in 'hate speech' just follows on from misogyny not being included as a hate crime, disgraceful as that is.

You can't 'not read posts' to see if they have offensive language in them.

Cis doesn't come under hate speech, but its use puts the woman to whom it refers on a spectrum on which they don't feel that they belong. It is no different from 'misgendering' a transperson.

The N word and the P word count as hate speech. Cis doesn't.

Iam64

janeainsworth

If a teenager was prescribed anti-depressants wouldn't you think that that was preferable to them attempting suicide?

Of course it is. But that doesn’t mean that if a transgender person is suicidal the appropriate treatment is necessarily hormone therapy. That is for a psychiatrist to decide, and subject to appropriate consent to treatment. It might be actually be anti-depressants!

I’m late to this thread, just read the previous 6 pages. Apologies for referring back. VioletSky was asked not to use ciswoman, cisgender as some (including me) find it offensive. VioletSky indicated that because the words are in the Oxford dictionary, that somehow legitimises their use.

The words n****r and cretin amongst many others remain in the dictionary. No one decent would use them, other than in their accurate historical context.

I find phrases that are used on here offensive at times. The whole 'trans women are not women' offends me. I don't feel the need to tell you not to say it.

It's up to VS if she wants to use that phrase. Don't read her posts if they're offensive to you. It doesn't come under the 'hate speech' umbrella in the way the N word does.

Mollygo

GJ I’m quite clear about gender and sex and since woman is an adult human female for all except those who prefer their own definitions I’m not confusing anything.
I’m unsurprised to see that you can’t or won’t answer the issue of your choice of which of your statements is correct or produce evidence of trans being cancelled. Good No Debate tactics in action.

I didn't say anything about sex and gender. You're confusing posters.

I'm afraid I can't stop using that term because I need it in order to best express myself. It does not mean anything derogitary if that helps.

So you're happy to continue to use a term, that you've specifically been told is offensive and insulting, because you're unable to articulate yourself in a better way? There are so many words and phrases that have long been in common usage but, those of us who have emotional and social maturity and integrity stopped using them when informed that they were causing offense to others. As Iam64 pointed out n****r or p**i is still in the OED but only racists would dream of using the word to describe a black or Asian person. Similarly, there are many derogatory terms to describe the physically disabled: spastic, cripple - there are many derogatory terms to describe the mentally disabled: nutter, idiot, headcase; all of them freely available to see in the Oxford English dictionary but never used except by the socially and morally bankrupt.

Please Violetsky I'm formally and politely requesting you to stop using the term cis to describe natal men and women. I find it as personally offensive a term as you would any of the examples I've provided in this post. Thank you.

Then I expect you would withhold anti-depressants as well there is considerable evidence of the harm they cause.
That's a strange assumption. What have anti-depressants got to do with this?

You may as well ask if I would withhold growth hormones, or one of any number of things. I am not a medical doctor, but if I were I hope I would act in the best interest of my patients. I would not be basing any decisions on the 'evidence' of articles such as the one in the OP, though.