Transgender people who start hormones as teenagers rather than adults 'have better mental health’

Oh yes, I appreciate that. But not many people bother to click on links really.

And there’s quite a lot of threads that people don’t bother to open.

But a strap line that looks like fact will stick as fact for a lot of people.

There are quotation marks in the title Peasblossom

It’s a bee in my bonnet generally.

Just ignore me. I need to get a life??

No worries

The strap line is what people are likely to remember. What that means is that the article needn’t be any more accurate than the statistics GJ suggested I Google. But that’s only to be expected.

It's interesting that people who argue do vehemently don't look at studies or research themselves

Well that's just not true.

Here is the link to the actual study

med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/01/mental-health-hormone-treatment-transgender-people.html

VioletSky

It's interesting that people who argue do vehemently don't look at studies or research themselves

Are you serious? Some of us actually do research

We are asked to believe stats that have been picked from a range of possibilities on Google, and if we don't like them to find our own. 'Studies or research' doesn't work like that.

It should have been obvious before they were posted that the figures of 1 in 4 and >80% are not based on research, for the reasons already mentioned. Anyone familiar with research would have seen that at first glance, and be aware that a study making unsubstantiated claims is highly likely to be flawed in other basic areas too.

Another thing that people usually check out before using studies to back up arguments is whether there is likely to be researcher bias. Who is running the study? Is anyone paying for it, and if so, do they have an axe to grind? That sort of thing.

What you posted is not a link to the actual study, VS. It is another report of its findings. It does, however, provide this interesting information:
Turban is the study’s lead author. The senior author is Alex Keuroghlian, MD, associate professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and director of the National LGBTQIA+ Health Education Center at the Fenway Institute.

I only say it because some of the things that were mentioned as missing from the research aren't actually missing if you read it

That's my mistake, I haven't git the hang of saving links and now I have many of them

Hopefully this is it

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34272170/

Sorry no, that is a bibliographic link, not the full study.

Well, either we trust it or we don't I suppose as the full study is behind a pay wall currently.

As I said though some of the things people were saying should be included in the study, have been confirmed as in there by those who have read the full study and reported on it

In any case, a link to the full study is most unlikely to be read by many people on here. We have too much to do, I'd imagine. Not having done so, but commenting on what was said in the OP is no 'not reading studies or research' - it is not necessarily reading that research paper.

The comments on this thread have not needed access to the study - they have all been directed at what was quoted, and the follow-up posts about suicide and the spurious figures about the number of transpeople who take, or consider taking their own lives. There was more than enough to take issue with there.

Oh, who on this thread has read the study? Apologies if I have missed it, but I don't remember seeing anyone saying that they have done so. It will definitely be behind a paywall, but if someone is a student or member of staff of a university whose library has the relevant licence would be able to read it, if they have time and inclination.

As I said, the important part is the findings which have been widely reported and I have managed to show evidence that some concerns (which I am putting in bold to highlight that I am not doubting them) are addressed within it.

The study was an extraordinarily wide and varied one and really very enlightening

Have you read it?

Let's not forget that these many thousands of voices need to be heard and we cannot in good conscience allow an unreasonable delay in finding professional support to those who need it and are at risk of imminant harm for the very small minority who discover they are in fact cisgender.

This puts cisgender before trans people

When actually the simple truth is, providing expert support much earlier may prevent those types of mistakes from happening in the possible 5 year delay to get the correct help.

VS this is from the pubmed link you posted:
“ Conclusions: Although past research has shown TGD youth who undergo social transition have favorable mental health outcomes in the short term, they may have worse mental health in adulthood (my italics) if not protected from K-12 harassment based on gender identity. It is the responsibility of clinicians to emphasize the importance of adolescents having safe and affirming social environments.”

How does that equate to the title of this thread (and the title of the indie article) Transgender people who start hormones as teenagers rather than adults ‘have better mental health’
The conclusions as stated seem to me to imply that the crucial thing is not the timing of the hormone therapy but indeed the necessity of a supportive environment, as many in this thread have stated.

VioletSky

Let's not forget that these many thousands of voices need to be heard and we cannot in good conscience allow an unreasonable delay in finding professional support to those who need it and are at risk of imminant harm for the very small minority who discover they are in fact cisgender.

This puts cisgender before trans people

When actually the simple truth is, providing expert support much earlier may prevent those types of mistakes from happening in the possible 5 year delay to get the correct help.

Is this a direct quote from the study, or is it from an opinion piece reporting on the findings?

Have you read the study that you berate the rest of us for having failed to do?

I don't know if you are familiar with the US school system janeainsworth

K-12 means kindergarten to 12th grade.

Basically what that means is that trans people may have worse mental health as adults if they are harassed (bullied) at school for being transgender.

So actually nothing to do with being trans or transitioning and purely to do with how they are (unacceptably) treated by others

doodledog I have read the findings, and the quoted pieces from several articles. Direct quotes are not opinions. Findings are not opinions.

Again, some concerns mentioned earlier on the thread have been covered which you can read in one of the posted links.

BTW, I pointed out to you earlier that I had not accused anyone of being ridiculous for different opinions and you haven't addressed that and I would like everyone held to the same standards I am held too continuously

Jeanainsworth the necessity of a supportive environment is vital, lack of that, even more than lack of hormone treatment, might well lead to thoughts of suicide.
However it should not include the support given by some parents I have read reports about and in ONE instance had dealings with, who once having “accepted” their child’s/teen’s concerns about whether or not they are the wrong gender, go full steam ahead to get treatment, whether or not the child/teen is convinced that that is what they want. These occurrences may be extreme but they exist and in some other countries, body altering treatments may well be available before a child is old enough to drive, have sex or vote in this country. Read the WPATH recommendations for these operations.

VioletSky

Let's not forget that these many thousands of voices need to be heard and we cannot in good conscience allow an unreasonable delay in finding professional support to those who need it and are at risk of imminant harm for the very small minority who discover they are in fact cisgender.

This puts cisgender before trans people

When actually the simple truth is, providing expert support much earlier may prevent those types of mistakes from happening in the possible 5 year delay to get the correct help.

for the very small minority who discover they are in fact cisgender.

Do you have statistics for this assertion? Wasn't that one of the criticisms of the Tavistock that no records going forward eg of de-transitioners etc were even considered?
Do you really not consider that people who have undergone life changing surgeries... double mastectomies or penis inversion.... who discover it was a dreadful mistake, to be in any way important? Are they simply 'collateral damage' to you? 'Cisgender' is considered an offensive term to a great many people (including me!), it was coined by transgender people and the supporting activists with no consultation at all. It might be kinder, and definitely more considerate, to refrain from using it.

Mollygo that's entirely misleading and you can very easily download and read the WPATH Standards of care for the ages reversable and irreversible treatments can be available, (not recommended) and the standard of care and the criteria they must match in order to ensure these are the right choices for them