Transgender people who start hormones as teenagers rather than adults 'have better mental health’

GagaJo

Since I've mostly been absent from the thread I started, I don't blame you trisher. But I agree about the power of the patriarchy, even amongst those who call themselves feminists.

I will continue to post and start threads. I accept the gender critical patriarchists will derail again and again. But I won't shut up. That is their objective and I'm not giving in to them.

Being aware that it is impossible to change sex does not make anyone a paid up member of the patriarchy. It just means you have an understanding of scientific fact. I want to smash the limits placed on women by men and their supporters, some of whom are women, as so well illustrated on this thread.

I've posted my objection to this study and what it claims, and my serious doubts about administering cross sex hormones to children. That also does not buy me membership of the patriarchy.

It's just more nasty digs, Rosie. 'Those who call themselves feminists', the suggestion that we are perpetuating the patriarchy by wanting to keep sex-based rights for women, the idea that we are derailing the thread, and that we have an objective of any description - it's all bonkers. Unpleasant and hostile, but bonkers.

Those who call themselves feminists applies more to the people who deny rather than support the rights of females.
Those ‘feminists’ who support not only the rights of non- confrontational TW as we all do, but the rights of all TW even those who mean harm to AHF.
Two views of feminism, one supporting women and one supporting those who mean harm to AHF.
Really?
You have the right to believe that your second group is something to be proud of and I expect you’ll keep on doing so.

Who was it who tried to argue that women's rights are not being eroded and that it's the gender critical patriarchy who are damaging feminism? Yep, the below is all the fault of those damned pesky gender critical feminists:

A female prisoner has described her ordeal at the hands of a transgender woman who sexually molested inmates at a women's jail during a three-month reign of terror.
Waiving her anonymity in an interview with The Mail on Sunday, Cheryle Kempton is the first victim to speak out in the hope that it prevents other women facing a similar fate.
And in a shocking account, Cheryle, 45, reveals she was one of four victims of sex predator Karen White, who was sent to the jail despite having had neither surgery nor hormone treatment.

White, 56, was sent to HMP New Hall, which houses 360 women, despite being a convicted paedophile on remand for grievous bodily harm, multiple rapes and other sexual offences against women.
Last night, Cheryle told the MoS: 'This must never be allowed to happen again. Whatever people have done, prison should be a safe space.' She believes White – who was born Stephen Wood – faked being transgender for the sole purpose of preying on vulnerable women and took advantage of new legislation which allows men who live as women to serve time at female prisons.

'She would get special privileges to buy make-up on certain sites like Asos and she was allowed to use the internet to buy her wigs,' said Cheryle. 'We were never allowed to do that, so why was she?'
Under new guidance, judges must now consider forcing alleged victims of sexual offences to refer to transgender defendants by the gender they wish – as well as keeping their previous names a secret. Decisions on where to place inmates such as White are initially taken by a local transgender case board made up of prison managers and psychologists. In this case, White's previous crimes were not taken into account.

Cheryle says she will never forget the balmy September afternoon in 2017 when White strolled across the exercise yard at the jail near Wakefield, West Yorkshire, and asked if she could borrow some oil for her e-cigarette. None of the women were warned that White was a man identifying as a woman. At least 6ft tall, she towered over her fellow inmates who asked why she was wearing a long blonde cheap wig and 'frumpy' clothes. White refused to engage, simply replying: 'I'm a woman.'

At the time, Cheryle – who became trapped in a cycle of offending because of drug addiction – was almost halfway through a sentence for burglary. After their first encounter, she was given the task of mentoring White in the sewing workshop. At first the pair struck up a friendship, but within three days, while left alone in the workshop, White coarsely demanded that mother-of two Cheryle perform a sex act.

'I just said, 'I thought you were a woman', to which she replied, 'Yes, but I still have a penis',' recalled Cheryle. 'She then told me that it would work if she didn't take her [hormone] tablets for six weeks.' White then bragged she was hiding the medication between her gum and lip to give the illusion she was taking it. The sex offender is believed to have been on hormone therapy which would lower her testosterone and her sex drive, making it almost impossible for her to get aroused. If the medication is stopped, however, the body will start to naturally produce it again. White then brazenly reached over and groped Cheryle's left breast, before suggesting she'd had breast implants.
'It was disgusting. I was wearing a padded bra and she wanted to feel it,' said Cheryle. 'She squeezed it hard, with the words, 'Oh look, they are not real ones'. I told her to get off me.' Cheryle says she was asked by a prison officer to make a formal complaint about White, but to her regret declined. 'At that point I didn't really think much of it,' she said. 'I thought I was safe and she was just trying her luck. I didn't look at her at that point and think, 'Is she here to prey on women?' 'However, Cheryle was left in no doubt about White's intentions a fortnight later when she pressed herself up against her while queuing for the workshop toilet. She pushed herself up behind me and I could feel that she was aroused,' said Cheryle. 'I went mad. She was whispering, 'You know you want it.' Next day, White grabbed Cheryle's hand and put it on her crotch. 'She grabbed my arm so hard, without saying a word. I froze as I was in shock but then I lost it with anger and picked up a pair of scissors. 'I had to be dragged out and she was denying it. For that split second she had power over me and I'm furious at myself for allowing that as
I'm not that kind of person. I just thought, 'You vile monster. Soon afterwards Cheryle discovered that White had sexually assaulted another inmate.

'Karen had tried to force herself on an inmate she had become friendly with, and another prisoner had walked in and witnessed it and managed to pull her off,' she recalled. They started a friendship and she [the victim] thought there were real feelings as she was vulnerable. She told me she thought Karen was nice. When you're being groomed like that you don't think you're being abused. It was at this point that Cheryle decided to make a formal complaint and she discovered that others had endured similar experiences.

White was hastily moved to HMP Armley, an all-male prison in Leeds, while police investigated

Not everyone at New Hall jail knew White had been born male, which sparked uproar among inmates as word spread. 'We felt they had protected Karen over us,' said Cheryle. 'All women in prison are vulnerable.
All her conversations were about sex,' recalled Cheryle. 'I felt vulnerable and uncomfortable in her presence. And we all felt like that, even the toughest of us.

A key principle is at stake here. Baron Blencathra argues that women have a right to some spaces free of men and that prisons ought to be the ‘definitive example’ of such a space.

Yet today, jails are not safe for women.

As Blencathra puts it, when women are jailed, their ‘punishment should not include the threat of rape and violence from big, brute rapists who have decided to identify as women and get sent to a women’s unit.

Blencathra proposed that transgender inmates could be housed in specialist units. You might think this a reasonable compromise. But in November, the House of Lords disagreed – with a majority of their Lordships voting in favour of some males having access to women’s prisons.
How did we get to this surreal place? In 2015, Tara Hudson, who was born a man but transitioned to live as a woman, sued the Government after being imprisoned in the all-male HMP Bristol. Hudson’s activist supporters claimed that such transgender individuals were at risk of violence and abuse in male prisons, and Hudson was moved to a women’s facility.

In 2017, prison policy changed again. Instead of demanding medical certification of trans identity, guidance emphasised the right of prisoners to ‘self-identify’ and to be treated according to the gender in which they identify’.

The truth is, however, that there are stark differences between the way that men and women break the law.

True, there are notorious female criminals. But most crimes committed by women are minor, such as TV licence fee evasion. Around 96 per cent of the UK prison population is male. Most murderers and violent offenders are male: 93 per cent of killers convicted between 2018 and 2020.

Men account for 98 per cent of all reported UK rape and sexual assault. On average men are much more violent than women. And they’re much more sexually aggressive. And there’s no evidence that identifying as a woman makes any difference.

Studies suggest when transgender women commit crimes, those crimes follow the male pattern – not the female one.

I’ve followed this thread. Accusing any poster who doesn’t share your views as being ‘part of the patriarchy’ sinks to new depths.
There are 3 posters taking the moral high ground. Believing only they understand the truth and the way, everyone else is part of the patriarchy, wrong, ignorant, racist, unprofessional, unkind, unfeeling, illinformed and bigoted terfs.

I’m waiting for trisher, gaga or Violet to find fault with Chewbacca’ s recent posts. Particularly studies suggest when transgender women commit crimes, those crimes follow the male pattern - not the female one

If I were a gambler, I’d bet that your post gets no response from the TWAW brigade, Chewbacca. You know, the ‘real feminists’ who have women’s interests at heart.

Or maybe we’ll be told that White isn’t a ‘real transwoman’, ignoring the fact that what we have been saying all along is that it is precisely because ‘fake’ transwomen can pose a danger to women that we are concerned.

Why should it be women who have to deal with the difficulties around housing male inmates in jail? Yes, there are too few places for trans prisoners. Yes, that’s tough on those who have lived as trans for years before sentence and who have been convicted of non- violent crimes. But is that a women’s problem? Should that mean that women are put at risk from predatory males?

I can’t for the life of me see how any feminist perspective could suggest that this is ok. It is men doing the offending (with women as their victims) so why has it become a problem for women to deal with? The notion that TWAW is given the lie by incidents like this one - women do not have penises.

Can anyone honestly say that the thought of being locked up with a six foot rapist and paedophile doesn’t sound terrifying? What reason can anyone, never mind a feminist, give for adding that terror to the sentence of a female prisoner? If subjecting women to that thread to avoid upsetting men is not buying into the patriarchal system, I really don’t know what is. And feminism aside, it is simply wrong.

Many people who wouldn’t classify themselves as feminists see thst placing 6 foot rapist/peadophile man in a frock and wig in a women’s prison is simply wrong.
I expect they’re part of the patriarchy though, so their views don’t matter

Perhaps by leaving this thread it will get to stand and later readers without preconceived notions will be able to read and see the truth for themselves.

I quite agree.

Think what you like believe what you wish. Try not to attribute things to me, motives or opinions I haven't expressed. But if you do so don't expect a response. There isn't going to be any victory, there isn't going to be a consensus, nobody wins.

It isn’t a competition or even a war so far as I understand it
It’s a serious discussion

Do you have nothing to say about the incident in Chewbacca's post, trisher? Or are you more interested in playing the diplomat after you were flinging unprecedentedly nasty accusations around upthread?

nobody wins.

Dead right. Especially vulnerable women.

Accusing any poster who doesn’t share your views as being ‘part of the patriarchy’ sinks to new depths
Thank you Iam. I never knew before reading this thread, and subsequent googling, that believing that gender was a social construct, but sex was immutable, made me a paid-up member of the patriarchy (with sinister links to the Catholic Church, conspiracy theories and Nazism thrown in).

Same from me

Saying I care isn't saying anyone else doesn't. It's just saying I care, because I do.

Apart from that, I haven't done any of that list so none of it should be attributed to me.

Thank you

Chewbacca

^nobody wins.^

Dead right. Especially vulnerable women.

And that’s really important.

I think we all care, VS. For the women raped in jails as well as for transpeople who harm no-one.

I'm sure everyone here cares about harmless transpeople; but when it comes to locking up male criminals who claim to be trans and who want to be sent to women's jails, decisions have to be made about whose rights come first - there is no compromise. What I don't understand is the mentality that puts the wishes of these men (particularly when they are sex offenders, rapists and paedophiles) ahead of the safety of women and calls it feminism.