Covid figures from ONS of Covid only deaths with no pre-existing conditions.

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s not a bit strange if you’re elderly. A fall may have serious consequences and if you then catch covid that can be the final straw for a weakened body.

I could do that quite easily when I was 7!

So by rights I should have died in 2019/20 when I had Covid, according to that list.

Looking at excess deaths (those beyond the usual expected number) is interesting. Covid deaths may have been underreported (not everyone was tested, not all are 'within 28 days') and deaths from other conditions could well be much higher (due to delays in diagnosis and treatment) yet still related, of course, by the strain on the NHS.

www.ft.com/content/05e32f95-0e7e-4d2a-b408-6ec6035dea8e

It’s not a bit strange if you’re elderly. A fall may have serious consequences and if you then catch covid that can be the final straw for a weakened body.

Callistimon ^ So an accidental fall over an object which someone carelessly left in your way is defined as a pre-existing condition!^

Yes, it’s a bit strange

Maisie D But, whatever the covid deaths, we have a big time bomb ticking away with all the people who haven't been able to get treatment over the past two years and a government which will do its best to evade giving the NHS any more funding.

They’ll just use it as an excuse to continue privatisation by the backdoor because the NHS can’t cope!

From the ONS dataset:

Pre-existing conditionICD-10 Codes
Accidental fallsW00-W19
Cardiac arrhythmiasI47-I49
Cerebrovascular diseasesI60-I69
Chronic lower respiratory diseasesJ40-J47
Cirrhosis and other diseases of liverK70-K76
Dementia and Alzheimer's diseaseF01, F03, G30
DiabetesE10-E14
Diseases of the musculoskeletal system and connective tissueM00-M99
Diseases of the urinary systemN00-N39u
Fracture of femurS72
Heart failure and complications and ill-defined heart diseaseI50-I51
Hypertensive diseasesI10-I15
Influenza and pneumoniaJ09-J18
Ischaemic heart diseasesI20-I25
Malignant neoplasms of lymphoid haematopoietic and related tissueC81-C96
ObesityE66
Other medical careZ51
Pulmonary heart disease and diseases of pulmonary circulationI26-I28
Pulmonary oedema and other intestinal pulmonary diseasesJ80-J84
Symptoms signs and ill-defined conditionsR00-R99

So an accidental fall over an object which someone carelessly left in your way is defined as a pre-existing condition!

What is included on the pre-existing conditions list?

ayse

I was just interested to know who died OF Covid rather than with Covid. Just passing on info I found interesting. My DH nearly died with Covid and no hidden agenda except the dire state of our health service.

But if the person with an underlying condition died because they had covid but wouldn't otherwise have died, they died OF covid. It's the sophistry that annoys me.

But, whatever the covid deaths, we have a big time bomb ticking away with all the people who haven't been able to get treatment over the past two years and a government which will do its best to evade giving the NHS any more funding.

Baggs

^Correlation is not causation.^

True. But the numbers are suggestive.

You could be right about its simply being summer.

I'm sure the vaccinations made a huge difference, I think you're right Baggs. But these stats don't tell us that.

Thousands die each year during the winter months, as we know.

So breaking those figures down, how many died of " the usual winter 'flu ?"

I was just interested to know who died OF Covid rather than with Covid. Just passing on info I found interesting. My DH nearly died with Covid and no hidden agenda except the dire state of our health service.

As far as I can understand, HIV/AIDS deaths mostly happen as a result of an infection or cancer, which comes about due to the failure of the immune system due to AIDS (I am not an expert though!). These could be described as deaths WITH HIV/AIDS, rather than OF it. However the death wouldn't have happened without the person being infected with AIDS.

It seems to me that similarly with Covid 19, even if another condition is already in existence, Covid is the reason that the condition becomes bad enough to kill the person. So the statement that a patient died WITH Covid doesn't mean it was not a cause. I think that stating that a death was 'within 28 days of a positive Coronavirus test' is thus a reasonable way to report these deaths.

Correlation is not causation.

True. But the numbers are suggestive.

You could be right about its simply being summer.

I think anyone becoming ill with covid and dying of it because its effects were compounded by age and co-morbidities such as diabetes (even if 'controlled' but I do admit to being fairly ignorant about diseases that becne more common as people age) do count as covid deaths.

Baggs

^Deaths in 3 quarters of 2021: 7,971^

But look at the difference between the first quarter of 2021 when it's compared to the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Something has improved. It'd be interesting to know if that was down to other factors than the vaccine roll out.

Summer.

Correlation is not causation.

I’m not sure what your intention is ayse

My guess is that ayse wanted to put some information "out there" for anyone interested.

Those figures have been used by the anti vax movement and are, as usual for them, seriously distorted.
If I had say diabetes under control I could expect to live to a reasonable old age with a good quality of life. If I died as the result of covid compounded with my pre existing condition then according to the anti Vaxers it doesn’t count as a covid death.
What do you think?

Deaths in 3 quarters of 2021: 7,971

But look at the difference between the first quarter of 2021 when it's compared to the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Something has improved. It'd be interesting to know if that was down to other factors than the vaccine roll out.

I’m not sure what your intention is ayse. So many of us have pre-existing conditions, whether well controlled or not, and stood a good chance of dying had we caught covid before vaccines were available. I’m one of them. Without covid we had a reasonable life expectancy.

They do seem to show that the vaccine programme has helped a good deal.

Sorry, I know I go on a lot, but they show no such thing. They tell you nothing about vaccines at all.

Deaths in whole of 2020: 9,400

Deaths in 3 quarters of 2021: 7,971

Obesity has put many people more at risk than they might have been otherwise.

Thanks for the figures, ayse. They do seem to show that the vaccine programme has helped a good deal.

I wonder how those numbers compare with typical years of flu deaths.

The health service has been pulled to pieces through lack of funding, loss of staff etc. and we are now suffering the consequences of government inadequacy and failure to put in place competent pandemic planning.

This, I agree with.

Daisymae

What is the percentage of the population have some underlying condition? Most people I know over 50 have something - controlled diabetes, heart conditions, asthma. By the time you get to 50 I would guess that a big majority have something to declare.

That’s an interesting point. I wonder if anyone can provide an answer?