unvaccinated should pay for hospital care

Who is talking about other countries

The OP is, Kali, the premise of the thread.

At the point when the decision is made about the chance of a good outcome, vaccination status would be irrelevant. Both the vaccinated and unvaccinated would be as ill as each other and at that point vaccination does not make any difference.

I would not be happy to be a health care professional in a world like that. I have always treated on the basis of need without any reference to lifestyle choices or morals.

Who is talking about other countries.

In many circumstances, prioritisation and choice has to be done- same in case of shortage oc ICU beds or ventilators, etc. Treatment will not be refused or charged for, but choosing those with the best chance of a good outcome is done all the time. No reason why vaccination status cannot be part of equation.

Well it’s never going to happen so not much point in discussing it really. What other countries do is their own business.

No, the unvaccinated cannot be denied health care.

Our NHS has to prioritise patients only on the basis of need.

Much as I deplore the nonsense of antivaxxers, we cannot turn them away if they get covid, any more than we would turn away smokers who get lung disease, or obese people or those like me who don't do enough exercise, if we get heart disease.

Nannan2

Well maybe they should expect to be 'passed over' in the queue for treatment then, in favour of the ones who are fully vaccinated yet have caught it anyway from the fools who have chosen not to get vaccinated?- im not on about the ones who cant for medical reasons, just the flakey non vaxxers.

I am unvaccinated ( for a reason ) after 2 yrs of avoiding it I caught it from my 83yr old triple jabbed mother at Christmas your argument does not really stand up and by the way I am not a fool …

Well maybe they should expect to be 'passed over' in the queue for treatment then, in favour of the ones who are fully vaccinated yet have caught it anyway from the fools who have chosen not to get vaccinated?

Didn't know you could tell who you caught it from. Does that mean if you caught it from a vaccinated fool you also have to go to the back of the queue???

It will be interesting to see how insurance companies will react, particularly for older people looking for holiday insurance to cover them whilst they are abroad or for general private medical insurance. I wouldn't be surprised to see questions about vaccination status and exclusions for treatment for covid for the unvaccinated.

ElaineI

Nannan2

Well maybe they should expect to be 'passed over' in the queue for treatment then, in favour of the ones who are fully vaccinated yet have caught it anyway from the fools who have chosen not to get vaccinated?- im not on about the ones who cant for medical reasons, just the flakey non vaxxers.

Yes and also pass over the fat ones, smoking ones, drug taking ones, ones who don't take their tablets properly, drunk ones - doesn't work like that!

It actually does in many situations, when there is a shortage of beds, theatre time, and especially, organ donations.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that unvaccinated should not be charged for treatment.

unvaccinated should pay for hospital care

They have probably paid taxes and NI.

It would be far too complex to sort out.

Nannan2

Well maybe they should expect to be 'passed over' in the queue for treatment then, in favour of the ones who are fully vaccinated yet have caught it anyway from the fools who have chosen not to get vaccinated?- im not on about the ones who cant for medical reasons, just the flakey non vaxxers.

Yes and also pass over the fat ones, smoking ones, drug taking ones, ones who don't take their tablets properly, drunk ones - doesn't work like that!

GillT57

Cessation of smoking and losing weight before surgery are not necessarily judgemental, they are to do with improved chances of success post operatively.

Agreed.

But one could argue that being vaccinated alos gives improved chances of success with treatment in the case of Covid infection (in fact it has been proven).

Kali2

Interesting question.

Certainly mainly orthopedic surgeons will not agree to operate for knee replacements if patient very overweight and/or inactive.

The problem is that having painful knees means walking and exercise is difficult ie inactivity.
A consequence of that can be weight gain.

I must be in the ok weight range then, as she has put me on the list.

Cessation of smoking and losing weight before surgery are not necessarily judgemental, they are to do with improved chances of success post operatively.

Kali2

Interesting question.

Certainly mainly orthopedic surgeons will not agree to operate for knee replacements if patient very overweight and/or inactive.

That may be because the operation has much less chance of being successful if too much weight is put on the new knee, Kali2, which is quite different from denying treatment to someone who needs it for serious illness and could recover fully.

I would hate to see non-vaccinated people being charged for, or denied, treatment for covid.

Interesting question.

Certainly mainly orthopedic surgeons will not agree to operate for knee replacements if patient very overweight and/or inactive.

Marmite32

I've just remembered - I had a heart operation when living in France. Followed by a group course with health advice.
The main thing was smoking - many in the group still smoked. The nurse in charge told us, "If you were in the UK they wouldn't operate until you had given up smoking".
I don't think this is true?

Yes, in the course of my career I heard this, from a Vascular surgeon to a patient. Smoking is one major cause of arterial disease, thickening blood and making clots more likely.

Perhaps they have been punished enough?
I presume we are talking about the non vaxxers who are very Ill and are taking up beds in ICU.
The people who are now, rather belatedly, wishing they had gone for the injection.
Most of us of us, those who have had triple jabs ,and are fit, healthy and slim without underlying problems can expect a short period of feeling unwell.
The unvaccinated will not be enjoying their spell in the ICU.

I've just remembered - I had a heart operation when living in France. Followed by a group course with health advice.
The main thing was smoking - many in the group still smoked. The nurse in charge told us, "If you were in the UK they wouldn't operate until you had given up smoking".
I don't think this is true?

No. The NHS should never start charging the unvaccinated. I understand that medical staff become frustrated that they can become more ill and therefore take up hospital beds but charging a fee? Never I hope.

Kali2 I heard that more and more companies are now stopping full sick pay to the unvaccinated, they get statutory sick pay only. A consequence of so many having to take extended days off.

Kali2

What about wages? My neighbours son and GF are unvaccinated. They went to Southern Italy last Summer for 2 weeks and came back and tested positive. Another week off on full pay. Two weeks ago, still unvaccinated, they went clubbing. Tested positive 2 days later- another week off- on full pay.

Should bosses/companies have to shoulder the cost?

I know more people off with Covid in the last 5 weeks than the entire duration of the pandemic, all are triple jabbed

The vaccine is not a hundred percent guarantee against catching Covid, but it does mean lesser symptoms and negates the need for hospitalisation in the majority of instances.

What about wages? My neighbours son and GF are unvaccinated. They went to Southern Italy last Summer for 2 weeks and came back and tested positive. Another week off on full pay. Two weeks ago, still unvaccinated, they went clubbing. Tested positive 2 days later- another week off- on full pay.

Should bosses/companies have to shoulder the cost?

Absolutely categorically not. There should be no judgement of why people need medical care, where does it end? Also, unvaccinated people are more likely to catch covid19 from asymptomatic vaccinated people, so that blows that argument out of the water, even if there was an argument in the first place.