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Fat (topic du jour)

(127 Posts)
GagaJo Wed 20-Apr-22 23:57:46

Interesting article

For 60 years, doctors and researchers have known two things that could have improved, or even saved, millions of lives. The first is that diets do not work. Not just paleo or Atkins or Weight Watchers or Goop, but all diets. Since 1959, research has shown that 95 to 98 percent of attempts to lose weight fail and that two-thirds of dieters gain back more than they lost. The reasons are biological and irreversible. As early as 1969, research showed that losing just 3 percent of your body weight resulted in a 17 percent slowdown in your metabolism—a body-wide starvation response that blasts you with hunger hormones and drops your internal temperature until you rise back to your highest weight. Keeping weight off means fighting your body’s energy-regulation system and battling hunger all day, every day, for the rest of your life.

The second big lesson the medical establishment has learned and rejected over and over again is that weight and health are not perfect synonyms. Yes, nearly every population-level study finds that fat people have worse cardiovascular health than thin people. But individuals are not averages: Studies have found that anywhere from one-third to three-quarters of people classified as obese are metabolically healthy. They show no signs of elevated blood pressure, insulin resistance or high cholesterol. Meanwhile, about a quarter of non-overweight people are what epidemiologists call “the lean unhealthy.” A 2016 study that followed participants for an average of 19 years found that unfit skinny people were twice as likely to get diabetes as fit fat people. Habits, no matter your size, are what really matter. Dozens of indicators, from vegetable consumption to regular exercise to grip strength, provide a better snapshot of someone’s health than looking at her from across a room.

highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/everything-you-know-about-obesity-is-wrong/

crazyH Thu 21-Apr-22 00:13:20

Very, very interesting…….thanks Gagajo

Chestnut Thu 21-Apr-22 00:17:18

Your 'diet' is what you consume daily so to say it 'doesn't work' simple means you have chosen the wrong types or amounts for bodily health. I eat three good meals a day but don't snack and don't add to it with sweet fatty foods. I don't gain weight, but to lose weight I'd obviously have to eat a little less. Getting the right balance and satisfying your hunger have to be done with care.

MaizieD Thu 21-Apr-22 00:37:38

I shall run that article past my uni lecturer/researcher DD whose subject area is obesity, diet and exercise.

I haven't read the article yet, but your first section raises the question of, how do you know what your weight is meant to be? It looks rather debateable to me. Are some people naturally fatter than others? If you've eaten your way through childhood, taken very little exercise and weigh,say, 17 stone at age, say, 15, is that going to be the weight you're stuck with for the rest of your life? Or, is that the weight that nature intended you to be? hmm

seacliff Thu 21-Apr-22 06:54:15

Very depressing. I was hoping there might be an answer at the end.

argymargy Thu 21-Apr-22 07:10:26

Metabolic health is one aspect of health. No matter how you dress it up, our joints were not made to carry excessive weight and being obese for decades will almost certainly result in osteoarthritis of knees and hips. Obesity is also associated with a variety of cancers, as well as other conditions like PCOS. Of course slim people can be unhealthy but that doesn’t mean overweight people are healthier.

Urmstongran Thu 21-Apr-22 07:25:18

I’m eating super healthily on my low carb diet as recommended by an NHS senior dietician in a diabetes prevention class. Four weeks in and I’ve lost half a stone. I’m more than phase, especially as I’m never hungry! She suggested only eating whole foods ‘that your grandmother would recognise!’. No packets of crisps, I don’t bake so no bought cakes or packets of biscuits (preservatives in them), no chocolate, I’ve also kick started all this with no alcohol this past fortnight. My motivation is high. I don’t want to develop diabetes and be on metformin or gliclizide, doing thumb pricks etc. I’ve 3x as much to lose so it’s early days I realise. But I’m fed up too of being fat.

An interesting article though gagaJo!
I think what I’m trying to say (in my usual rambling style!) is that health issues can impact with weight gain. It puts strain on the joints - back, hips and knees for some people - and our hearts are the size of a fist big or small and so in a fat person our hearts have to pump harder to send blood to our extremities. This can exacerbate hypertension. Plus as explained to me recently a viscerally fat belly presses up inside against the lungs making a fat person more breathless when walking.

All in all, it ought not to be ignored. Even though I took my eye off the ball these last 3 years, it’s time now for me to address these issues.

BigBertha1 Thu 21-Apr-22 07:26:24

I read the article and many more like it struggling with weight all my life. I am starting an NHS recommended regime called Second Nature next week which I hope we get me on the right path to deal with several associated issues.

Sara1954 Thu 21-Apr-22 07:36:35

I was always around nine stone till I hit menopause, now I’m probably twelve.
I did every diet known to man with very little success so I decided to ditch the diets and the scales, and see what happened.
Well I didn’t lose weight, but I didn’t gain weight, I would like to be slimmer, and am trying to lose a bit for health reasons, but I don’t think I’m going to be very successful.
Im not convinced by the article though, everyone I know who is seriously overweight has a lot of associated health issues.

Serendipity22 Thu 21-Apr-22 08:22:11

Im a big believer in will power, if my pants are a big tight that is it immediately, I eat salad, salad and salad, if I snack, its fruit or nuts. My will power is very strong, 1 of my friends is less so. She's tried this diet and that diet, the words will power just don't penetrate into her mind.

GrannyLaine Thu 21-Apr-22 08:56:03

I find the whole subject fascinating and horrifying in equal measure. There is SO much misinformation that people have to get around to lose weight effectively.
I decided in 2020 that I'd had enough of being overweight. The link between obesity and increased risk of dying from coronavirus gave me the final push. I lost 24kilos and have kept it off.
These are the things I learned:

1. Eating the right foods is key: high protein, good amounts of healthy fats, small amounts of complex carbs. NO sugar or highly processed foods. No snacking between meals.

2. Once I got the hang of it, I didn't count calories.

3. Body mass index is misleading: people with a lot of muscle tend to have higher BMIs

4. Sugar is the enemy to health, NOT fats. Biggest myth ever perpetrated

GrannyLaine Thu 21-Apr-22 08:59:29

Forgot to add the number 5 - while exercise is beneficial to health & wellbeing generally, it's not especially helpful in losing weight. Music to my ears.

BlueSky Thu 21-Apr-22 09:03:01

I can’t honestly say that I overeat or eat the ‘wrong’ food. Yet I’ve put on about a stone since retirement and find myself borderline diabetic, borderline high cholesterol, borderline high BP, and yes I walk about 8000 steps a day. Genetics? I’m now trying low carbs as suggested by Urmstongran.

ExDancer Thu 21-Apr-22 09:18:13

I often wonder about the survivors of Hitler's concentration camps and whether they remained thin, or whether they tended to overeat and become obese.
It would have been regarded as trivial at the time - but what a missed opportunity to study the effects of years of starvation followed by sudden years of plenty had on the human body.
Sorry if that sounds unfeeling and cruel.

Jane43 Thu 21-Apr-22 09:43:08

Very interesting, thank you. I have also spent much of my adult life trying to control my weight with varying success. I have been overweight but never obese. Since I turned 70 I have managed to keep my weight at the top end of the recommended weight for my height because I fear immobility and the impact it would have on my family. This has been increasingly difficult since I lost 2.5 inches in height, I am currently 5 feet 6 inches and weigh just under 11 store. I gave up slimming diets, especially faddy ones, many years ago and agree that they don’t work so I go by the principle of eating two meals a day, the first at around 11am and the second at around 5pm with plenty of vegetables and fruit, some lean protein, a limited amount of wholemeal bread, some cheese, Greek yogurt and oat milk, bran based cereal and oats. I do have the odd treat at weekends and holidays. As we approach 80 DH and I have changed to decaffeinated coffee and very rarely drink alcohol as trial and error have revealed that they are the main caused of DH’s atrial fibrillation and occasional bouts of tachycardia. I have always hated exercise so walking is my only means of exercising but since I have had a prolapse and recently back problems it is limited to about a mile at a time. DH has always been, and still is, very slim but of the two of us he is the one with Type 2 Diabetes and Atrial Fibrillation so I’m not sure about the link between obesity and cardiovascular health. When I was researching the possible causes of Atrial Fibrillation I did read that very low carbohydrate diets are linked to it which is interesting because I did briefly try the Dukan diet a few years ago which virtually eliminates carbohydrates and when I came off it I had severe palpitations for a few weeks. Diet and health is a subject which has interested me for many years so thanks again for the article.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 21-Apr-22 09:52:12

DH has heart problems and has been borderline diabetic 2 or 3 times since his heart began to be an issue.

We keep a home blood/sugar monitor and keep constant watch. After Christmas it was over the magic number so carbs were drastically cut out - he got back to normal within 3 weeks.

I think that as one ages it is more difficult to lose weight. However, if you virtuously keep to a diet moderate in all things without worrying about it, it is probably the best way forward.

I can’t say I’ve achieved that yet!

Callistemon21 Thu 21-Apr-22 09:55:10

MaizieD

I shall run that article past my uni lecturer/researcher DD whose subject area is obesity, diet and exercise.

I haven't read the article yet, but your first section raises the question of, how do you know what your weight is meant to be? It looks rather debateable to me. Are some people naturally fatter than others? If you've eaten your way through childhood, taken very little exercise and weigh,say, 17 stone at age, say, 15, is that going to be the weight you're stuck with for the rest of your life? Or, is that the weight that nature intended you to be? hmm

One thing I read years ago was:
Once fat cells have been made in the body, they don't ever go away even if you diet - they shrink and are there ready to be filled up again quite readily, which seems depressing.

Is weight gain linked to hormonal fluctuations ie puberty, pregnancy, the menopause? It certainly seemed to be with me; I'm not obese but certainly not trim, not that I want to be as skinny as I was as a child.
Is it more difficult for women to lose weight than men?

Callistemon21 Thu 21-Apr-22 09:58:54

I shall check in later - I'm off out to lunch!

Urmstongran Thu 21-Apr-22 10:06:21

4. Sugar is the enemy to health, NOT fats. Biggest myth ever perpetrated

Totally agree GrannyLaine.
I remember my mum buying a book in the mid-80’s with a photo of a heaped spoonful of sugar on the cover, called ‘Pure White and Deadly’. She was ahead of the curve my mum!

PinkCosmos Thu 21-Apr-22 10:42:38

I am overweight and have put on around a stone each decade. I am 64 and 14 stone

I have been to Weight Watchers, Slimming World and done other 'diets'. I have also come to the conclusion that 'diets' don't work. If they did, WW and SW would no longer be in business.

When I went to Slimming World - a few years ago now so it may have changed - they were really pushing things like MugShots (powdered noodle soup) and low fat Muller yogurts.

Even though I am overweight I do not eat low fat anything (as the fat is usually replaced by sugar) or processed food.

I cook from scratch every night (apart from the occasional takeaway) and don't eat cakes, chocolate or biscuits. I don't really snack.

My problem is portion sizes and wine!!

At the end of the day, all food has calories. It is up to you to decide how best to eat those calories. You could eat two mars bars a day or two chickens a day and the calories would be probably be similar. Don't know the exact calorie count of either, just trying to make a point.

I have a couple of friends who are very slim but they barely eat anything. When they do eat it is more like grazing and mainly carbs e.g. bread, crisps. I would think that are both 'lean unhealthy'. One of them has early osteoporosis.

I need to lose at least two stones and am currently working on giving up the wine (about 800 calories a bottle!!) and cutting down portion sizes.

I was interested in ExDancers comment about concentration camp survivors. Does constantly starving yourself lead to your metabolism slowing down permanently , thus making the weight issue worse in the long run

Antonia Thu 21-Apr-22 10:58:31

An interesting article, and I agree about sugar. I bought the book 'Pure, White and Deadly,' it's a revelation.

Another eye opener is 'Spoonfed' by Tim Spector.

On the subject of models, my sister came round to us wearing bright pink tights, which she has bought from Snag Tights. I had a look at their website (and bought some tights) and they do use short, round models.

They make skirts too, but I wish they would start making dresses, as I'd really like to see dresses on people more my height and shape.

GrannyLaine Thu 21-Apr-22 11:28:07

PinkCosmos

I have been to Weight Watchers, Slimming World and done other 'diets'. I have also come to the conclusion that 'diets' don't work. If they did, WW and SW would no longer be in business.

You are so right to highlight this. These are not altruistic businesses and if their diets were effective, they would not get return membership. The principles of their eating plans are very flawed, which you have highlighted. Losing weight is ultimately down to what kind of food you choose to eat.

ayse Thu 21-Apr-22 11:53:31

Urmstongran

I’m eating super healthily on my low carb diet as recommended by an NHS senior dietician in a diabetes prevention class. Four weeks in and I’ve lost half a stone. I’m more than phase, especially as I’m never hungry! She suggested only eating whole foods ‘that your grandmother would recognise!’. No packets of crisps, I don’t bake so no bought cakes or packets of biscuits (preservatives in them), no chocolate, I’ve also kick started all this with no alcohol this past fortnight. My motivation is high. I don’t want to develop diabetes and be on metformin or gliclizide, doing thumb pricks etc. I’ve 3x as much to lose so it’s early days I realise. But I’m fed up too of being fat.

An interesting article though gagaJo!
I think what I’m trying to say (in my usual rambling style!) is that health issues can impact with weight gain. It puts strain on the joints - back, hips and knees for some people - and our hearts are the size of a fist big or small and so in a fat person our hearts have to pump harder to send blood to our extremities. This can exacerbate hypertension. Plus as explained to me recently a viscerally fat belly presses up inside against the lungs making a fat person more breathless when walking.

All in all, it ought not to be ignored. Even though I took my eye off the ball these last 3 years, it’s time now for me to address these issues.

This diet worked for me going from 9st 10lbs to 8st 2lbs over some months so I’m now back to the weight I’ve been most of my life.

During pregnancy your body is preparing for breast feeding. DD3 became rather large during pregnancy and breast fed the twins. The weight just dropped off so breast feeding seems to encourage the pre-birth weight gain to disappear.

Not so long ago I came across my mother just post WW2. She was so slim, probably as the result of the wartime diet. My grandmother in her early 50s at the time was certainly a larger women than my mother.

From what I understand obesity and overweighted in the population has been growing slowly since WW2. Michael Moseley suggests that today all the fast food is contributing to this.

What I’m saying is that everyone is different but our modern day addiction to fast food is contributing to the growing weight problems of many people. I agree that diets as such don’t work but a change of eating habits is different. This does contribute to weight loss over time and IMO is a more positive way of looking after our health.

Blossoming Thu 21-Apr-22 12:47:07

Very interesting.

timetogo2016 Thu 21-Apr-22 12:56:10

Wow,that is interesting.
I could do with loosing some weight,but find it easier to exercise as i only consume around 1,300 calories a day,so can`t really cut back on food.