GP Confirmed Death at Home by Videocall

Nik dumpling I will be doing the same and refusing, I will simply act my name and say I don’t know how.

Very sad, Looks like I was very “lucky”.
DH died last month in front of me. I had insisted that the GP visited when I knew he was slipping away. She did, and when he died four days later, I called the Community nurse who came 3 hours after and confirmed the death.
I’m not sure what I’d have said if I needed to video him - probably be truthful and say I didn’t know how.

I was with my mother when she died at home in 2014. At the time we had marvellous end of life care from both her community nurse,GP and Marie Curie. I remember the moment I realised she was no longer breathing. It may sound silly but despite doing the things you would do,check for pulse etc I still wasn't SURE. I was so grateful when professionals arrived.
My father also died peacefully at home.
I am so glad they have not had to live through the nightmare of past few years.
That poor poor woman.

When I remember DH going out in the middle of the night to confirm deaths, I am totally disgusted to hear about this. What are we coming to? How can these doctors feel comfortable with behaving in such a heartless way?

Oh was in hospital for blood tests , but very poorly with Parkinson’s , we visited at visiting time in the evening
Eldest took one look at him and pulled the curtains , I called a Nurse , she was so kind , he was still able to squeeze my hand
The nurse kept popping in to see how we were and only came in when he drew his last breath,
I don’t know how anyone could ask a bereaved person to video a loved one at that time
I relive those moments every night and bless the kind Nurse

Anybody actually have the article to show us? Anybody actually got the details?

Or shall we all just jump to conclusions and blame the GPs?

Good that a friend could help with that.

I do not find it shocking, given the state of the NHS shortage of personnel.

I also think that if someone has been dying for a while and their death is expected at home, it's a relatively simple thing to record by a family member or friend, especially with the video call from the GP. People have 'recognised' death for millenia. The NHS has removed a lot of what was normal and 'protected us' from it even when that was not necessary.

Before the pandemic, I was reading things about people wanting to die at home rather than impersonally in hospital. What is reported in the Telegraph therefore seems like a natural progression.

Here you are V. MrB has a subscription:

An elderly widow was forced to certify her husband’s death via video call after a GP said they “don’t come out any more”.

The patient, who was 80 and had been dying from cancer, passed away at home shortly after 4pm on a weekday earlier this month. His wife, who had been caring for him at home, called her local GP and was told the doctor would “be in touch shortly”.

But when the GP phoned back, more than one and a half hours later, he said he would not be coming to the house.

Moira Evans, a friend of the widow who was there at the time and has spoken to The Telegraph, said: “He then sent a link to a video chat… [and said] ‘hold the camera to the dead body’. My friend at this point said ‘I can’t, can you do it please Moira?’, and so I did it.”

The GP explained that “they don’t come out any more to certify death, that you have to do it yourself on a smartphone”, she said.

‘Verification should be carried out in person’

Temporary measures for completing medical certificates of cause of death during the Covid pandemic were lifted in March this year.

The current official requirements, set by HM Passport Office, state: “Seeing the deceased after death (ie viewing the body) will need to be in person and includes verifying the death.”

An NHS spokesman said: “Verification of death should be carried out in person by a qualified health professional in a sensitive and compassionate manner.”

But we don't know the GP's situation.

The GP's situation is irrelevant, Baggs. The job is to confirm, and if appropriate, certify the death. It has to be done in person and common humanity alone demands that it should be so. If the doctor on call can't do it, s/he should get someone else who is qualified to do it.

Where is the "sensitive and compassionate manner" about this appalling way to treat people?

This could set a very dangerous precedent. Could the Dr tell if I’d held a pillow over someone’s face.
I realise that the chances of this happening are very slim,but, Dr Shipman springs to mind.

Agreed. If the GP could not do it, for any reason- She/he should have made alternative arrangements.

You can't certify someone's death by phone, as apart from pulse and breathing, which can be VERY low in a very elderly sick person, you have to look into the eyes with a flash light.

I don't want to scare anyone, but I know of at least 1 person who was quickly confirmed as dead by an elderly doctor in a hurry, and the person woke up on the table at the undertaker's.

The whole thing was hushed as the doctor and person's OH belonged to the special secret society with the handshakes!

Thanks for copying the article Baggs.

Simply appalling- he should be severely disciplined if not struck off. ???

MawtheMerrier

Simply appalling- he should be severely disciplined if not struck off. ???

What a great idea! So we are desperately short of GPs let's get rid of one. You (and the newspaper) have no idea why the GP couldn't attend. Perhaps he was seeing another patient, perhaps she was home with her children and couldn't leave them. Jump in and condemn. No wonder people are leaving the profession in droves.

You beat me to it Glorianny. Good post.

So a second rate service is enough?
No, I’ve had enough experience from both sides to know that a conscientious GP would have found a way to send a qualified medical professional to attend.
Our NHS far from being the “envy of the world”; has declined to being a national embarrassment
Yet again the failings of the NHS are in focus. . More people have reached the point where they feel “this just isn’t working”.and the change has come about because of millions of bad personal experiences.

my friend was treated appallingly by paramedics and then the police when her partner died at home, surely there needs to be a better way of dealing with this

OK, so I've wondered about whether to post this or not, but here goes.

My DM died recently at home. Very suddenly. There has been no doctor in the house then or since. Indignant old ladies huffing about how the NHS isn't doing its job are just expecting too much, really.

The service wasn't second rate, it was excellent. Stop moaning that you don't get the things you think you are entitled to and stop believing everything the Telegraph tells you.

I'm sorry to hear about your Mother volver

Disgusting - and dangerous.

The current official requirements, set by HM Passport Office

This puzzles me. What has the Passport Office got to do with it?

Indignant old ladies huffing about how the NHS isn't doing its job are just expecting too much, really

???

Fleurpepper

I don't want to scare anyone, but I know of at least 1 person who was quickly confirmed as dead by an elderly doctor in a hurry, and the person woke up on the table at the undertaker's.

The whole thing was hushed as the doctor and person's OH belonged to the special secret society with the handshakes!

This is what terrifies me
One similar case received quite a lot of publicity a few years ago.

If someone dies at home does there have to be a post mortem or is that no longer the case?