Imagine life without the NHS?

I was born in ‘44 while Dad was away serving in the army. I was born in my grandmother’s home, my mother having moved in next door ‘for the duration’. She had moved in with her mum temporarily..

The doctor gave my mother a form for my father to claim back the cost from the army. It was probably quite substantial as I had caused my mother tremendous problems. My grandmother tore it up saying, ‘Thank you but we don’t take charity!” I don’t think Dad ever completely forgave her.

I was born in 1923. The doctor would visit any time day or night. Visit to surgery was half a crown. Two shillings and sixpence.
My daughter was born early 1947 in St George’s Hospital, Hyde Park Corner (now a hotel) Bill for ten days was six guineas (six pounds and six shillings)
In. 1984 we were in France when my husband was unwell. Went to village doctor and he advised seeing specialist in nearby town. Went next day and after examination diagnosed stomach cancer. Back same day to doctor who booked hospital for following day. Five days later my husband had operation and he was in hospital for four weeks. There was no cost for us because we were in the EU.

US healthcare obviously has it's problems and not everybody is covered even by medicare BUT have to say that when I lived in the US and we had private healthcare via DH's work we had the very best medical care ever. We had amazing dental care costing thousands of dollars without any co-pay on our part and DH saw specialists every month for his various health problems. I had annual breast checks, bone density scans etc and had excellent treatment when admitted to hospital. We had a very small co-pay when we saw the primary care physician (around $5 ) but everything else was covered. They are so involved in preventative medicine unlike in the UK and we both thoroughly appreciated the care we had there. Unfortunately if we'd had to pay for this med insurance cover ourselves we would have been unable to do so.

Elizabeth27

Over 90% of American citizens have health insurance, either employer or state paid. There will be some that fall through the net but it is available to all.

There are many countries without the NHS that cope very well.

That may be so but I belong to a fb group for people with PMR and the number of American patients who can’t afford the medication or whose insurance company won’t cover it is scary.
I know our NHS has many faults and shortcomings but I thank god for it.

Sorry - pressed wrong key!

but never paid for the expenses incurred. Thete was a t.v. programme some long time ago where someone's
family member visited from abroad, ended up in hospital for very expensive treatment then openly admitted she came to have the operation and would not be paying for it, as she got in a taxi back home overseas!!

I agree with the comments about the NHS being free - we do pay towards it through Nat Ins etc - but now we are living longer and more people are operated on for hip/knee even heart/lung replacements. There is no way our contributions would cover the cost if these. What I find unacceptable are the 'tourists' without insurance who end up having expensive treatment for which they fail to pay. Surely payment should be made before treatment - you would have to do this in USA. I remember the lady with rich business man husband, landed in UK and ended up giving birth to quadruplets, then decided to stay, but

SueDonim

My son lives in the US and healthcare is a major issue there. He and his wife are fortunate to have health cover with their jobs but even then, it still costs. Their young son got a piece of Lego stuck up his nose (don’t ask!) and it had to be removed in a clinic. Even with insurance, it cost $700 co-pay.

There are so many T&C’s to the various insurances, it’s not like you pay and then have cover for everything, everywhere in the US. They both know people who have been bankrupted by health costs and even a 24yo man who died of pneumonia because he had no cover and couldn’t afford to take time off work to visit a free clinic.

OMG! have they not heard about 'A mothers kiss'? If a small child gets something stuck up their nose the mother puts her open mouth over her child,s open mouth and blows as hard as possible. This is often enough to dislodge the offending object. A small child will wriggle and thrash about so you have to wrap the child in a large bath towel to sort of pin them down (sounds harsh but the child will not always comply.

Our payment funds current treatment for all. And our treatment funded by everyone too, you don't have your own little pot of NI contributions that you take with you! It's all funded/ subsidised by everyone! What I resent is that once we're over70 everyone thinks you should be dead!! No more mortgages, no dementia treatment, no driving licence(even if already have a clean one!!) No respect either , as we had a healthy respect for our ' elders'? Talk about age discrimination?!

Where health care is paid for through private insurance companies, you are paying not just for the cost of your health care but for additional profits that go to their shareholders and their prime aim is to safeguard and increase these profits. Similarly with privatized health care providers, you pay not just for the health care provided but also for their additional profit. All this can skew and affect the care provided. I was talking recently to a friend who is a Professor of Nephrology. He told me many companies in the USA who provide dialysis for kidney patients also arrange transplants. But they have a vested interest to keep people on dialysis because it is more profitable so kidney transplants are harder to come by than they are in the UK. I have a cousin who has been waiting on dialysis for a kidney in the US for many years.

CathSoc62

I don’t agree - the NHS is a total failure and after over 15 years has failed to diagnose that I have genetic HAEMOCHROMATOSIS aka ‘ The Celtic curse ‘ as I’VE discovered that I have more than 75% Celtic genes ! And sadly most GPs haven’t a clue what they’re talking about and as my wondeful oncologist says do ‘ diagnosis by Google ‘ ! Ask around how many people are TOTALLY misdiagnosed by UK GPs ! BTW, many moons ago I got a 1st Class Honours degree in Biology and genetics, so I DO not what I’m saying !

I’m surprised as it is such a well known condition.

I can imagine life without NHS. I can't see a doctor, lucky if I get a phone call. My prescriptions are the only thing I benefit from, oh, plus a once a year eye test and a check-up at the dentist . . . which still costs!

I don’t agree - the NHS is a total failure and after over 15 years has failed to diagnose that I have genetic HAEMOCHROMATOSIS aka ‘ The Celtic curse ‘ as I’VE discovered that I have more than 75% Celtic genes ! And sadly most GPs haven’t a clue what they’re talking about and as my wondeful oncologist says do ‘ diagnosis by Google ‘ ! Ask around how many people are TOTALLY misdiagnosed by UK GPs ! BTW, many moons ago I got a 1st Class Honours degree in Biology and genetics, so I DO not what I’m saying !

Not that you aren't right to keep saying it. I applaud the work you are doing.

MaizieD

^The one thing we have to keep repeating is that we paid for a service that would be "free at the point of delivery".^

The thing is that we haven't paid for a service, DaisyAnne. What we have done is consistently mandate governments to provide and pay for the service from money they can issue into the economy on our behalf.

If we were all a bit less accepting of this 'taxation funds government spending' mantra we might not accept the 'we can't afford to pay for it' lie that we're given.

See my post at 12.36.

Oh dear Maizie, we can't all be purists. You are right, we were told we had paid for it.

I'm with GreyKnitter . I am the mother of an insulin dependent diabetic, and the godmother of a child with severe and complex needs. Neither of these would be insurable in America. Thank heaven for the NHS.

I have been considering growing opium poppies in my garden. It would be easy to make a simple tincture of the seed oil.

My daughter and her family emigrated to the USA and have top of the range health insurance. Even so, there's always a bill to pay for any medical procedure, however small. They have also found the system quite difficult to navigate, as they can only go to doctors, dentists, hospitals, etc, that are specified by their insurers.

Four years ago, I was extremely ill in hospital and the doctors had to try several different drugs to try to stabilise my heart. My daughter said later that, if I had been in the USA, the doctors would have had to get authorisation from the insurance company before they could try the different drugs.

She had a friend who was dying of breast cancer and there was a drug which would hopefully prolong her life, giving her more time with her young children. The insurance company refused to pay for it. Her husband had to go through a legal battle to get them to authorise it, which they eventually did but the cancer had, of course, got more of a grip by then.

The NHS isn't perfect, by any means. Last year, our other daughter had to have an operation for thyroid cancer and needed another to remove the rest of her thyroid in case it had spread. The waiting list was so long that we ended up paying £6,500 for her to have a private operation, because we were scared for her to have to wait. My daughter in the USA said that her sister wouldn't have had to wait if she lived there - but the operation could have cost ten times as much or even more.

I asked her how people managed if they had no insurance, or if they had a long illness and their insurance ran out. She said that she had no idea, and that she thought they didn't manage. They went bankrupt and often lost their homes.

It horrifies her to see that the UK seems to be sleepwalking towards a USA - style health care system. She says that we don't know what we're losing.

Before the NHS I remember hearing my parents discuss whether or not they could afford to call the doctor to come to the house. If I remember correctly, the cost was 3 shillings and sixpence a visit. We are very fortunate that we can call the doctor to come to visit a sick relative without having to worry about the cost,

The one thing we have to keep repeating is that we paid for a service that would be "free at the point of delivery".

The thing is that we haven't paid for a service, DaisyAnne. What we have done is consistently mandate governments to provide and pay for the service from money they can issue into the economy on our behalf.

If we were all a bit less accepting of this 'taxation funds government spending' mantra we might not accept the 'we can't afford to pay for it' lie that we're given.

See my post at 12.36.

Fleurpepper

No, I can't imagine, as it is (well, was) the best system in the world.

What happens under the French system about pre-exisiting conditions? If we have to move to a Health Insurance system, it has to ensure 2 things a) that those who can't afford it are covered by a safety net. Having 10% of the population not covered as in the USA is just NOT acceptable. And b) that Insurers cannot refuse or exclude pre-exisiting conditions or some conditions.

A woman we know was refused permission to emigrate permanently to Canada (where she had a home and a small business) because she has a chronic health condition. This was despite the fact that they made it clear that they would pay for private health insurance.

I’m sitting on a ward right now, waiting to have my second hip replacement. I have osteoarthritis. I’m 56 and I know that other joints may need replacing too.

Two of my family have epilepsy.

No, I can’t imagine life without the NHS, because our insurance premiums would be sky high.

Yammy

HousePlantQueen

Beautiful, the NHS is free at the point of use. I am saddened by comments such as those made by Elizabeth27, private medical insurance is all well and good if (a) you can afford it and (b) you are basically using it to queue jump/get your hip replaced/varicose veins stripped, but private medical companies only provide services which can be costed; they do not have A&E, do not have ICU, and heaven help anyone who develops a life changing condition such as MS.

you couldn't be more right Houseplant Queen. People take for granted our NHS. Another illness which private health care will not cover you for is Kidney disease or any thing related to dialysis. People who do not have have Kidney problems can develop them at any time through an other illness or even pregnancy.
Also at one time private hospitals would carry out major operations and they did not have blood banks on site and blood had to be brought from the NHS hospitals. This might have changed now but it is something to ask if you are having a major operation privately.Something we should all be aware of as well as the ones mentioned.

This is not strictly true. My DiL has kidney problems and has had private treatment through her employers' health insurance. However she had found that the NHS treatment at a specialist centre was far better.

The NHS is not perfect but it's a lot better than the US system and a lot of other countries outside the EU. France has an excellent system similar to the NHS except one pays a modest, partly reclaimable fee to see the GP (and in my experience it's often a same day appointment) and a co-payment for hospital treatment but most French people have a mutual, nonprofit insurance policy for a modest monthly outlay which covers the co-payment. Before the NHS only the rich could afford hospital treatment and the GP; the very poor - if lucky - were treated free by charitable GPs and local hospitals set up by charities and some local authorities but the people in the middle - the working class and much of the middle class could not afford to pay. My grandfather had two fingers amputated on the kitchen table by the GP. We do not want to go back to those days or to a system driven by profit.

Callistemon21

^The government primarily funds its spending on the economy through tax revenues it earns. However, when revenue is insufficient to pay for expenditures, it resorts to borrowing. Borrowing can be short-term/long-term and involves selling government bonds/bills. Treasury bills are also issued into the money markets to help raise short-term cash^.

corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/economics/government-spending/

Is this incorrect, then?

It's incorrect.

Here's the abstract from a recent academic study of government financing. A bit more technical than Murphy's explanation.

Abstract
This paper constitutes a first detailed institutional analysis of the UK Government’s expenditure, revenue collection and debt issuance processes. We find, first, that the UK Government creates new money and purchasing power when it undertakes expenditure, rather than spending being financed by taxation from, or debt issuance to, the private sector. The spending process is initiated by the government drawing on a sovereign line of credit from the core legal and accounting structure known as the Consolidated Fund (CF). Under directions from the UK finance ministry, the Bank of England debits the CF’s account at the Bank and credits other accounts at the Bank held by government entities; a practice mandated in law. This creates new public deposits which are used to settle spending by government departments into the economy via the commercial banking sector. Parliament, rather than the Treasury or central bank, is the sole authority under which expenditures from the Consolidated Fund arise. Revenue collection, including taxation, involves the reverse process, crediting the CF’s account at the Bank. With regard to debt issuance, under the current conditions of excess reserve liquidity, the function of debt issuance is best understood as a way of providing safe assets and a reliable source of collateral to the non-bank private sector, insofar as these are not withdrawn by the state via quantitative easing by the Bank of England. The findings support neo-chartalist accounts of the workings of sovereign currency-issuing nations and provide additional institutional detail regarding the apex of the monetary hierarchy in the UK case.

The findings also suggest recent debates in the UK around monetary financing and central bank independence need to be reconsidered given the central role of the Consolidated Fund.

www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/public-purpose/sites/bartlett_public_purpose/files/the_self-financing_state_an_institutional_analysis_of_government_expenditure_revenue_collection_and_debt_issuance_operations_in_the_united_kingdom.pdf

Taxation did use to finance spending but since sovereign money (i.e money issued by a government) is no longer backed by gold or silver this no longer applies. But old beliefs die hard...

What a fantastic story Mouse, so glad the NHS gave you that chance and for you to enjoy life and tell the tale. Wonderful.