Imagine life without the NHS?

CathSoc62

I don’t agree - the NHS is a total failure and after over 15 years has failed to diagnose that I have genetic HAEMOCHROMATOSIS aka ‘ The Celtic curse ‘ as I’VE discovered that I have more than 75% Celtic genes ! And sadly most GPs haven’t a clue what they’re talking about and as my wondeful oncologist says do ‘ diagnosis by Google ‘ ! Ask around how many people are TOTALLY misdiagnosed by UK GPs ! BTW, many moons ago I got a 1st Class Honours degree in Biology and genetics, so I DO not what I’m saying !

I’m surprised as it is such a well known condition.

Where health care is paid for through private insurance companies, you are paying not just for the cost of your health care but for additional profits that go to their shareholders and their prime aim is to safeguard and increase these profits. Similarly with privatized health care providers, you pay not just for the health care provided but also for their additional profit. All this can skew and affect the care provided. I was talking recently to a friend who is a Professor of Nephrology. He told me many companies in the USA who provide dialysis for kidney patients also arrange transplants. But they have a vested interest to keep people on dialysis because it is more profitable so kidney transplants are harder to come by than they are in the UK. I have a cousin who has been waiting on dialysis for a kidney in the US for many years.

Our payment funds current treatment for all. And our treatment funded by everyone too, you don't have your own little pot of NI contributions that you take with you! It's all funded/ subsidised by everyone! What I resent is that once we're over70 everyone thinks you should be dead!! No more mortgages, no dementia treatment, no driving licence(even if already have a clean one!!) No respect either , as we had a healthy respect for our ' elders'? Talk about age discrimination?!

SueDonim

My son lives in the US and healthcare is a major issue there. He and his wife are fortunate to have health cover with their jobs but even then, it still costs. Their young son got a piece of Lego stuck up his nose (don’t ask!) and it had to be removed in a clinic. Even with insurance, it cost $700 co-pay.

There are so many T&C’s to the various insurances, it’s not like you pay and then have cover for everything, everywhere in the US. They both know people who have been bankrupted by health costs and even a 24yo man who died of pneumonia because he had no cover and couldn’t afford to take time off work to visit a free clinic.

OMG! have they not heard about 'A mothers kiss'? If a small child gets something stuck up their nose the mother puts her open mouth over her child,s open mouth and blows as hard as possible. This is often enough to dislodge the offending object. A small child will wriggle and thrash about so you have to wrap the child in a large bath towel to sort of pin them down (sounds harsh but the child will not always comply.

I agree with the comments about the NHS being free - we do pay towards it through Nat Ins etc - but now we are living longer and more people are operated on for hip/knee even heart/lung replacements. There is no way our contributions would cover the cost if these. What I find unacceptable are the 'tourists' without insurance who end up having expensive treatment for which they fail to pay. Surely payment should be made before treatment - you would have to do this in USA. I remember the lady with rich business man husband, landed in UK and ended up giving birth to quadruplets, then decided to stay, but

Sorry - pressed wrong key!

but never paid for the expenses incurred. Thete was a t.v. programme some long time ago where someone's
family member visited from abroad, ended up in hospital for very expensive treatment then openly admitted she came to have the operation and would not be paying for it, as she got in a taxi back home overseas!!

Elizabeth27

Over 90% of American citizens have health insurance, either employer or state paid. There will be some that fall through the net but it is available to all.

There are many countries without the NHS that cope very well.

That may be so but I belong to a fb group for people with PMR and the number of American patients who can’t afford the medication or whose insurance company won’t cover it is scary.
I know our NHS has many faults and shortcomings but I thank god for it.

US healthcare obviously has it's problems and not everybody is covered even by medicare BUT have to say that when I lived in the US and we had private healthcare via DH's work we had the very best medical care ever. We had amazing dental care costing thousands of dollars without any co-pay on our part and DH saw specialists every month for his various health problems. I had annual breast checks, bone density scans etc and had excellent treatment when admitted to hospital. We had a very small co-pay when we saw the primary care physician (around $5 ) but everything else was covered. They are so involved in preventative medicine unlike in the UK and we both thoroughly appreciated the care we had there. Unfortunately if we'd had to pay for this med insurance cover ourselves we would have been unable to do so.

I was born in 1923. The doctor would visit any time day or night. Visit to surgery was half a crown. Two shillings and sixpence.
My daughter was born early 1947 in St George’s Hospital, Hyde Park Corner (now a hotel) Bill for ten days was six guineas (six pounds and six shillings)
In. 1984 we were in France when my husband was unwell. Went to village doctor and he advised seeing specialist in nearby town. Went next day and after examination diagnosed stomach cancer. Back same day to doctor who booked hospital for following day. Five days later my husband had operation and he was in hospital for four weeks. There was no cost for us because we were in the EU.

I was born in ‘44 while Dad was away serving in the army. I was born in my grandmother’s home, my mother having moved in next door ‘for the duration’. She had moved in with her mum temporarily..

The doctor gave my mother a form for my father to claim back the cost from the army. It was probably quite substantial as I had caused my mother tremendous problems. My grandmother tore it up saying, ‘Thank you but we don’t take charity!” I don’t think Dad ever completely forgave her.

Five years ago I was in great pain with crack in the base of spine caused by radiotheraphy for cancer. It was seven hours agony waiting for the ambulance.
Recently I had a fall and had to wait four hours for ambulance then twenty six miles over bumpy roads to A and E . Two hours in the ambulance queue outside the hospital. Then all night before being seen. Fortunately I wasn’t seriously hurt,

At the risk of causing a backlash, the NHS is an organisation which requires a complete overhaul. It doesn't seem fit for purpose due to consecutive governments imposing impossible targets and expectations. It is a bottomless pit where money is concerned. No amount will be enough. The more money thrown at the NHS will just be swallowed up. Administration and targets seem to have overtaken the care and treatment of patients. I stand in awe of the drs and nurses that work for the NHS. However it is well passed due the time we as a country had a calm, honest debate on the NHS and its future. It cannot continue this way.

Elizabeth27

Over 90% of American citizens have health insurance, either employer or state paid. There will be some that fall through the net but it is available to all.

There are many countries without the NHS that cope very well.

The health insurance does not cover everything by any means. For example, it doesn't cover taking you to hospital unless you are in danger of dying. My friend fell in the street, broke her leg and had to call for an Uber to take her to Emergency - using an ambulance would have cost her up to $3000: she is fully insured. As for state paid ... that is a joke. Another friend without insurance (unaffordable) had cancer diagnosed and was only allowed free medical care to cover immediate issues - didn't cover any scans, or on-going treatment, or chemo! We take our NHS for granted and we are sleepwalking into the American system at present with so much coming under private American companies.

Bijou

I was born in 1923. The doctor would visit any time day or night. Visit to surgery was half a crown. Two shillings and sixpence.
My daughter was born early 1947 in St George’s Hospital, Hyde Park Corner (now a hotel) Bill for ten days was six guineas (six pounds and six shillings)
In. 1984 we were in France when my husband was unwell. Went to village doctor and he advised seeing specialist in nearby town. Went next day and after examination diagnosed stomach cancer. Back same day to doctor who booked hospital for following day. Five days later my husband had operation and he was in hospital for four weeks. There was no cost for us because we were in the EU.

Goodness Bijou, I wonder if you are the doyenne of GN.

Anyone here born before 1923?

Well done you.

Well the NHS has let me down for decades, inferring psychosyomatic illness when in fact it was brucellosis, with incompetent GP's and various departments including not x-raying my back after a fall with severe osteoporosis recorded and for 13 months suffering from "unexplained back pain" which was a compression fracture. Then "above the normal range, to be expected" for 4 years with hyperparathyroidism so I had to pay £11k three days before lockdown in 2020 for a operation. It is only now when I am old and past it that have a wonderful consultant who has ordered many tests and MRI within 6 months and confirmed peripheral neuropathy which "quite possibly was caused by the covid vaccine. I knew that already. I wouldn't be sorry to see it privatised.

In one of his many books, Bill Bryson commented that the US is a county that doesn't see anything wrong in sending a child home to die because its father has run out of money.

sorry to hear you've been through the mill elaine, but please

''I knew that already.''

How could you possibly know that?

Fleurpepper

sorry to hear you've been through the mill elaine, but please

''I knew that already.''

How could you possibly know that?

And why would a privatised health system find out the problem any quicker?

Rosina

In one of his many books, Bill Bryson commented that the US is a county that doesn't see anything wrong in sending a child home to die because its father has run out of money.

Yes, I read his comment, too.

He thought we were more civilised and compassionate with our socialised (as the Americans call it) healthcare system and it is one of the many things he admired about our nation.

I adore Bill Bryson. He said he wished Britain would stop focusing on economic growth and just concentrate on making life wonderful for everyone. I agree.

This morning I called into my GP surgery as I have a changing mole on my arm. The receptionist said there had been a cancellation and I could see the clinical practitioner immediately. He was kindness itself, examined me, took photos, mailed my details to the local dermatology unit and said I would hear back within a week. Just amazing, especially on the busy morning after a bank holiday weekend. The NHS is phenomenal. I can't imagine life without it.

If it is every completely privatised what I will do is crowdfund for treatment. There are alot of wealthy people still in this country so I would put it on facebook and let them pay for it. Lots of people already do that and quite often it gets support.

Beautful

I have private medical insurance , have for years ... saying that it does cost ... used it a few times ... NHS ... I am not rich far from rich, but would willingly pay into it, out of my pension to keep it. I think it is wonderful to know people can get treated, without worrying about the cost, although some could pop to the chemist to ask for advice , even cheap medication. Years ago when I went to the doctors told me the medication was cheaper over the counter. I know people who have medication delivered regularly, but don't need it as already have loads , people should just contact chemist & say , as this takes a lot of wasted money , especially if free ... my opinion ... KEEP THE NHS

Private health insurance is fine for things like planned surgery but useless if you need dialysis, cancer treatment or have a chronic condition. If you become very unwell post surgery in a private hospital and need intensive care you'll be transferred to an NHS hospital. Many years ago Emma Nicholas, an MP in Devon raised this after her husband ended up in an NHS ICU after routine surgery in a private hospital.

I belong to an international diabetes site and have lost count of the number of Americans who can't afford the medication they need. I now also belong to a breast cancer group. Some Americans are in awe of the treatment I'm having. Even though they are insured, the insurance companies just wouldn't pay for all the scans I've had. I've also had a heart attack and had a stent fitted within an hour of ringing 999. Thank you, NHS!

Like Countess Fosco I also lived in the EU for 25 years...in Spain and then in France. The healthcare in France was exceptional ..you get what you pay for...my friends still there have had NO operations, care, etc cancelled because of COVID ...doctors have seen people face to face throughout (a little different...you are asked to turn up AT your appointed time and not before...I had very expensive treatment for cancer, my late husband had everything he required for Parkinsons, dementia and cancer .including a prescription for a riser recliner chair that cost 900 euros ! Taxis to appointments were free of charge ....the mutuelle insurance (a 3 tier system you can pay basic, upgrade, or highest level which covers consultations etc as well !) for my husband and I we paid just over 180 euros a month and received excellent immediate care. Here, since I returned, I had to pay over £2,000 for a private MRI scan as the NHS wait list was 16 months, and it was urgent ! plus £200 each time to see a private doctor ...now waiting for eye treatment which I will not see the specialist for until God knows when ! I may be forced to either lose my sight or go private again ........and to those who say it is unfair and unjust and 'all very well for those who can afford it'..........no it isn't ...most of us struggle to afford it and go without other things like holidays, new clothes, etc ..PLUS it releases a place on the NHS waiting list for someone else !!! how can that be wrong ! I think we should pay, like we did in France, 25 euros per visit (all but 2 euros is refunded by the CPAM (French health insurance)...also might stop non shows at appointments ! There is ONLY so much the NHS can afford ...people are living longer and new treatments are keeping us alive for longer ......but the government actuaries were unprepared for this, and the NHS underfunded for so long (I worked in a hospital before I left to live in the EU) so could see the wastage ...top heave management, PAYING for translators (in Spain there was a notice on my doctor's wall 'IF YOU DO NOT SPEAK FLUENT SPANISH YOU MUST PROVIDE YOUR OWN INTERPRETOR ..QUITE RIGHT !!! cost me 20 euros for the interpretor, plus travelling time, plus a coffee to explain what my appointment was for (it was a simple follow up to a mammogram (which I could understand myself !) so I think we should all pay more than the NI contributions ....after all, any incomer to this country gets it all for NOTHING ...care, heat, food, money .....whereas this winter many will probably die due to the cold, heating, lighting and food being unaffordable ......this government has a lot to answer for .euthanasia by another name whilst refusing those who wish for it, an end of life choice (my own MP said she could not support this, as 'there is excellent palliative and end of life care available;.IF ONLY this were true ! No country for old men (or women !_ or anyone in need

Callistemon21

MaizieD

I'll get on my hobby horse and remind you, again, that taxation doesn't fund spending and that state investment in the NHS is probably better for the domestic economy than a privatised service as no money is taken out of the economy by the way of profit.

And, while we're at it, the current dire state of the NHS is entirely due to tory governments since 2010 cutting its funding on ideological grounds.

I know that I'm incredibly thick but I do understand borrowing, quantitative easing etc but I still don't understand why, if spending s not funded by taxes, we pay any kind of tax at all.

When I was a nurse in OPS we had many patients who had moved to Europe. They used to hop on a cheap flight home have their consultation and fly back. I often heard these patients talking to each other in the waiting room about their flights. They may be finding this a bit more difficult these days!