Princess Grace hospital cancelled vital surgery for woman who requested single-sex care

VS
I'm going to keep pointing out what's not true when it isn't.
And those who know the truth-that males are male will keep on pointing out what’s true-when it is.
Anyway bedtime.🤣

Mollygo you are wrong

And protecting beliefs is not the same as facts... do we need to discuss the definition of the word "belief"?

And I've always advocated for protecting safe spaces etc

Pro trans is not anti women

And you can tell me I think whatever you like but I'm going to keep pointing out what's not true when it isn't

And doodledog because I can't sleep but am out of energy for this stuff really

Someone without true gender dysphoria abusing the rights of others to attack women is just a male predator so yes it does matter. An offender will still offend by other means if that is their goal.

Also it shows that anger is misdirected when we have so so many posts about trans issues yet the fact that only 1% of sexual offences are charged or convicted is just ignored in a thread about a woman who has previously been attacked by a man

Can anyone tell if Dysphoria is real? Can even those suffering from genuine dysphoria tell if it’s permanent?
Why would anybody suggest irreversible treatment-physical or chemical without having the expertise to diagnose if it’s ‘genuine’ or not?
If they had to sign a disclaimer preventing them from asking for reversal or suing for damage caused to their lives, would that change the decision to attempt physical or chemical treatment?

Is Anyway bedtime a new version of f*****e?

growstuff I think it's obvious this discussion deviated from someone peering around a door. You are far too intelligent not to have realised that, so it's disingenuous of you to present otherwise.

Fleurpepper

Watching ITV News now, about female and male people with learning and other special needs being kept behind closed doors, with no access for parents and no idea what care they are given, or drugs- is beyond upsetting.

And about so many in the Police having criminal records, and a culture of misoginy and sexual aggression and predation, is beyond upsetting.

So sorry if I can get all upset and ariated about someone, perhaps a man, perhaps not, perhaps trans, perhaps a woman with alopecia, perhaps - putting her head around the door, and then quietly leaving. Really!?!

I agree with you. Women are discriminated against in so many ways. There are far more important battles than somebody breaking rules by peering round a door.

Mollygo

VioletSky

Lol I agree completely with the equality act and have said so several times

Your move

And the equality act says that people can change sex does it?
Your agreement on anything appears to only be agreement when it involves refusing female rights to safe spaces or treatment by females without having to report the males who think saying I’m a woman gives them the right to be there.
Your “discrimination” post fell at the first hurdle.
And yes, I know at this time I’m risking being reported by some posters by saying things like that.

Women don't have the right to receive medical treatment from women. They can request a preference and can refuse treatment, but don't have the right to demand the treatment they want.

What is the absolute number (not per cent) of trans women in UK prisons?

VioletSky

Again to add to the mix we need to understand if those people have genuine gender dysphoria

Can anyone tell me how we do that and if it matters to you?

It matters to me

Anyway bed time

Which people?

In most cases I don't think it does matter. Laws cannot be based on what goes on in people's heads, and have to be equally applicable to all. Whether or not male bodied people have 'genuine dysphoria' (as opposed to what? Falsified Dysphoria?) they remain male. If they wish to 'transition' that is fine, but they are then transwomen, not women.

As to whether 'we' can tell if Dysphoria is real or not, I couldn't, but I guess a clinical psychologist might be able to diagnose, if they had that expertise. If someone were determined to pretend, and had the intelligence and education to read up about the condition they might be able to fool the doctors, I suppose. Why would they want to though? I don't really understand why Dysphoria might not be 'genuine'.

VioletSky

Lol I agree completely with the equality act and have said so several times

Your move

And the equality act says that people can change sex does it?
Your agreement on anything appears to only be agreement when it involves refusing female rights to safe spaces or treatment by females without having to report the males who think saying I’m a woman gives them the right to be there.
Your “discrimination” post fell at the first hurdle.
And yes, I know at this time I’m risking being reported by some posters by saying things like that.

Watching ITV News now, about female and male people with learning and other special needs being kept behind closed doors, with no access for parents and no idea what care they are given, or drugs- is beyond upsetting.

And about so many in the Police having criminal records, and a culture of misoginy and sexual aggression and predation, is beyond upsetting.

So sorry if I can get all upset and ariated about someone, perhaps a man, perhaps not, perhaps trans, perhaps a woman with alopecia, perhaps - putting her head around the door, and then quietly leaving. Really!?!

VioletSky

Again to add to the mix we need to understand if those people have genuine gender dysphoria

Can anyone tell me how we do that and if it matters to you?

It matters to me

Anyway bed time

Of course it matters! But given that TRAs and trans allies and some transgender people are saying that they object to any need for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria how would you ever know? Scotland, under the leadership of Nicola Sturgeon, is proposing to introduce legal self ID from age 16, no diagnosis of any kind required, it will be self declaration.
It is quite obvious that at least some of the self identified transwomen offenders only discovered they were transgender after they had been charged, or after sentencing. While the chant remains TWAW and 'people are who they say they are' you will never have any way of telling. This is the crux of why some of us believe that certain safe spaces must exclude all male born people, even those with a GRC, and why the EA must confirm that the protected category of 'sex' be defined clearly as the biological sex which was observed at birth. People should be free to live their lives as they wish within the confines of the law, but sex is immutable, and in a very few instances it truly does matter.

Crikey that was quite unclear as well. Maybe we all need sleep.

Oh and in all of this I want to be clear that transmen should be in womens prisons, to house them in the Male estate would be unthinkable, it is sex which guides my decisions not the fact of being trans.

makes =males

I need my bed too.

Saying that she awful women commit sexual violence in no way mitigates the sexual violence carried out by males. It’s not a question of which is worse but how to put measures into place that will stop it happening surely.

As violetsky acknowledged there are makes who will pretend to be trans in order to indulge fetishes or to gain easy access to women.

We can’t tell the difference between them or your relatives Fleur when it comes to accessing female spaces.Until we can the priority must be safety, don’t you think?

Studies in the effects of testosterone do show that it is linked to aggression- comparative studies have been undertaken with castrated males. But the studies also showed that this was I almost every case male to male aggression. Seen throughout the animal kingdom in identifying the dominant male.

Aggression and violence towards females did not appear to be affected by either increased or decreased testosterone indicating that this was not the primary driver in male to female aggression..

Not really sure what you mean about common sense and reality. The law has been decided with regard to single sex spaces, its covered in the equality act.

Oh I agree, but common sense and reality should decide what becomes law.

And back with the question about trans people, especially those who have been on full transition from male to female, commit as much crime as men. The evidence, please.

We cant base laws on nice people we know. It's not how it works.

Rosie51

Fleurpepper Do you have a link or links to that effect. Males who have transitioned to females have to take a lot of hormones that will change the tendency for male aggression.
Perhaps you're unaware, but there's no obligation to take hormones or consider surgery to transition, not even to get a GRC. Alex Drummond is a transwoman lesbian. Alex has no intention of ever taking hormones let alone consider surgery. I'm not sure there's evidence that taking hormones does decrease any tendency to aggression or violence anyway.

Thanks. I am of course, as anyone, basing my comments on experience from friends who have been through the process.

I am NO specialist, but it seems to me that aggression and violence is often linked to testosterone. And that it would therefore make sense, that if men take hormones to transition, testosterone would be lessened.

Doodledog, I just don't get it. There are just awful women out there, tragically. Just don't quite get why a sexual aggression is commited with a penis, is necessarily worse than one done with a dido, a bottle or another tool, which is likely to cause more damage. Why would it be worse if committed by a 'trans', than by a man, or a woman, for that matter.

How has this turn in the converstation got anything to do with someone, perhaps a man, perhaps a gay man, perhaps a trans woman, or not, perhaps a butch and strange woman, with a wig and too much make-up, or? or? or? - putting a head around the door and not entering the room?

Let's wait for the investigation.

Again to add to the mix we need to understand if those people have genuine gender dysphoria

Can anyone tell me how we do that and if it matters to you?

It matters to me

Anyway bed time

Doodledog

Sorry to disappoint you, but you explaining it doesn't make it so, VS. Trust me. Or don't, but a cursory Google will help you out.

I'm right, I already checked

But thanks anyway

The whole point of women's spaces is that men cannot enter them. Allowing any men entry, however they 'identify' will effectively mean that women no longer have anywhere where they can't be followed by men.

An article on transwomen criminals by transwoman Debbie Hayton in May 2021.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/trans-offenders-are-skewing-crime-statistics/

An article based on Ministry of Justice statistics, from Fair Play for Women in December 2020.

fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences/

I actually thought that quite a lot of the safe spaces for women movement has focused on the likelihood that there are a number of males with a fetish and masquerading as trans and that it is impossible to tell the difference between them and “genuine” trans.

And this is why women need safe spaces where anybody identifying as trans cannot come.