Princess Grace hospital cancelled vital surgery for woman who requested single-sex care

VioletSky

Oh but does anyone remember when life was simpler? And it was just patiently explaining to furious people that they can still say "Merry Christmas" or sing "baa baa blacksheep" or whatever the latest nonsense was

Let’s keep it lighthearted 🙄

In reply to your post @ 17.04 VS, yes of course there are polite ways of requesting not to be seen by a trans woman and for that to happen, the person concerned would have to be informed that this was going to be the case so they can decline, which is what is being said here.

Openness and transparency are key and providing that a hospital does not assume that for a patient who specifically requests females only for whatever reason will accept a trans woman, there shouldn't be a problem.

I wouldn't find it at all amusing to see men dressed as women entering a ladies toilet to install cameras. If I did, my first concern would be if they were doing so legally. If they were, then I would expect them to make their presence known if any cubicles were occupied, and to present themselves as men.

To dress as women as well as being incredibly stupid is incredibly immature. That said, I would expect prior notice to be fixed to the outer door giving the time the facilities will be closed in order for the work to be undertaken, or if not to be closed to give women the opportunity to seek facilities elsewhere.

I can understand why that would have been a traumatic experienceGalaxy and it beggars belief that any one especially some women, would find that amusing.

That woman is quite happy for men to treat her, operate on her... but as an obsession with 'trans' - if they are all just men, does not make any sense then, does it!?!

growstuff

volver

I think what worries me is that headlines are constructed to suggest a specific course of events. For instance, "sex attack victim has operation cancelled after requesting single sex care". All those things happened in that order, but a person who had been sexually assaulted some time ago requested single sex care and later had an operation cancelled after she went home, as planned, and the hospital decided they could not accommodate a request she hadn't made until quite late in the process.

And we have lots of indignation and allegations of discrimination and accusations in the Mail (and on here, I'm sorry to say) that women's rights are being undermined.

It worries me because what other "not quite truths" are people believing?

I agree with you absolutely volver. I'm most interested in the power of the media, including social media, in influencing people. It's quite frightening.

I agree the power of social media is frightening, all the more because it is relatively uncontrolled.

And yet, it is a vehicle to bring real experiences out into the open too and not allow them to be suppressed by people and organisations that want to keep things hidden.

Rosie ''The transgender people I know, have all chose to become women BECAUSE they don't want to be and behave like bad men do, and because they want no part in male violence and control. sorry but that makes no sense. Why would they have to transition, if that was their reason they just had to be good men and not behave badly? My husband and sons are male, they respect women, would never be violent or behave badly or try to control, while still being men. ''

it does not make 'sense' to me either. Because I have never lived in a family where the man or men were abusive, controlling, drug addicts or alcoholics, or all the above combined. But those I know who decided to become women, did- and it did strongly influence the strong feeling that they did not to be MEN, but wanted to become one of the ladies who suffered the above, be part of their team, as one of them.

And even if I do not understand it, because I have not lived it, or suffered from it- and have always shared my life with great men, be they my father, brothers, family and friends, it is not up to me to judge, or to decide.

Oh but does anyone remember when life was simpler? And it was just patiently explaining to furious people that they can still say "Merry Christmas" or sing "baa baa blacksheep" or whatever the latest nonsense was

Well one “not quite truth” is that transwomen are less likely to commit violent sexual offences than males who have remained men.

Studies so far seem to show that the pattern and percentage of offending follows the male pattern and percentages and not the female which might be expected of transwomen.

This has of course been challenged and some evidence is now clouded because offences committed by transwomen have been recorded as women’s offences.

It is going to make any recent statistics difficult to analyse so no doubt it will be said these are old studies dating from 10 years ago.

volver

I think what worries me is that headlines are constructed to suggest a specific course of events. For instance, "sex attack victim has operation cancelled after requesting single sex care". All those things happened in that order, but a person who had been sexually assaulted some time ago requested single sex care and later had an operation cancelled after she went home, as planned, and the hospital decided they could not accommodate a request she hadn't made until quite late in the process.

And we have lots of indignation and allegations of discrimination and accusations in the Mail (and on here, I'm sorry to say) that women's rights are being undermined.

It worries me because what other "not quite truths" are people believing?

I agree with you absolutely volver. I'm most interested in the power of the media, including social media, in influencing people. It's quite frightening.

I think many of the women involved in the issue of single sex spaces etc hold enormous amounts of knowledge, and expertise so I wouldnt worry too much.

Too many

I think what worries me is that headlines are constructed to suggest a specific course of events. For instance, "sex attack victim has operation cancelled after requesting single sex care". All those things happened in that order, but a person who had been sexually assaulted some time ago requested single sex care and later had an operation cancelled after she went home, as planned, and the hospital decided they could not accommodate a request she hadn't made until quite late in the process.

And we have lots of indignation and allegations of discrimination and accusations in the Mail (and on here, I'm sorry to say) that women's rights are being undermined.

It worries me because what other "not quite truths" are people believing?

I'd bother answering that but I know pro trans does not equal anti women no matter how words are tossed about

I admire the strength of conviction you have though even if I don't agree with it and I think it's actively harming people.... actually no.. no I don't, neverind... you do you

Things are going to keep getting better for women and trans people and anyone else who wants equality

The threat from men VS, transwomen belong to that sex. If ginger men decided to use womens single sex spaces I would be saying exactly the same. That wouldnt be demonisation of ginger men it would be an acknowledgement of the sex to which men with ginger hair belong.

What is ridiculous (possibly not funny) is that *trans people are not putting cameras anywhere, it's men.

What is disturbing to me is that only 1 in 100 rapes by men in this country result in charges or conviction and yet in the sphere of gransnet (not my circles) there is a new thread on gransnet a week on the "threat" to women by trans women when anyone responsible for criminal behaviour may not actually have gender dysphoria at all.

And even if they did, using the actions of a few to actively demonise an entire demographic is discrimination

But you know, priorities I guess

Listening to the news tonight, one of the victims of the Police enquiry said that an enormous difficulty was that nobody would believe her reports of what was happening and dismissed it as fantasy or paranoia.

Perhaps it’s no surprise that similar attitudes to what women have reported are very much in evidence in this thread, together with a let’s turn it into a bit of a joke.

Belittling is way of dismissing women in particular.

Fleurpepper

Not at all. Paranoia about transgender people. Men are much more likely to be abusers and do the things you describe.

There are probably bad apples, as there are in every group of people. The transgender people I know, have all chose to become women BECAUSE they don't want to be and behave like bad men do, and because they want no part in male violence and control.

The transgender people I know, have all chose to become women BECAUSE they don't want to be and behave like bad men do, and because they want no part in male violence and control. sorry but that makes no sense. Why would they have to transition, if that was their reason they just had to be good men and not behave badly? My husband and sons are male, they respect women, would never be violent or behave badly or try to control, while still being men.

Galaxy Transwomen are men, they have the same pattern of offending as men I am afraid. Yes, in fact of the transwomen in prisons, it's a much higher percentage of sex offenders than in the general male prison population. Maybe they're not all 'genuine' transwomen but how are we to tell?

Because well they are men. There are no magic words that change that. I think it's absolutely right for example that transmen are not housed in Male prisons because the risk would be horrendous. It's not about trans it's about peoples sex.

Galaxy

At my workplace a man was caught placing cameras in the toilets, it was very traumatic for the women involved but I am glad those kind of situations are providing amusement.

It's sickening isn't it? There are apparently porn sites dedicated to Primark changing room photos. Photos of women using toilets are uploaded to porn sites where they will exist forever. But hey, it's just a laughing matter for some. Maybe if they ever become aware that a female in their family circle is now the object of some pervert's masturbation sessions, they will adjust their view.

Transwomen are men, they have the same pattern of offending as men I am afraid.

Not at all. Paranoia about transgender people. Men are much more likely to be abusers and do the things you describe.

There are probably bad apples, as there are in every group of people. The transgender people I know, have all chose to become women BECAUSE they don't want to be and behave like bad men do, and because they want no part in male violence and control.

Are you describing womens concerns about sexual assault and Male violence as paranoia? I assume not.

At my workplace a man was caught placing cameras in the toilets, it was very traumatic for the women involved but I am glad those kind of situations are providing amusement.

LOL yes, Paranoïa abounds!

VioletSky

So much is baffling, I read recently about men disguising themselves as women to get into woman's toilets to install cameras etc

Given the amount of effort required to masquerade as a woman, these men must be incredibly stupid because it would be far easier to chuck on a toolbelt and walk in with a toilet plunger

That made me . It sounds like something from a bad Cold War film.

Glorianny

Regardless of the gender I would have imagined a private hospital would have some means of indicating when a room was occupied. When my mum was in A&E she was pushed for a short time into a small room. The door was constantly opened by people looking for space. It didn't matter because we were just awaiting test results., but it isn't behaviour I would expect in a private hospital. Seems very odd that anyone shouldjust walk in.

That's what I thought too. Having unfortunately spent many hours in hospital consulting rooms over the last few months, I noticed that every single one had a sign on the door and a curtain which blocked a direct view from the door.

After my op, I was in bed with a curtain drawn round. When the surgeon came to visit, he called out to me before he popped his head round the curtain, so his visit wasn't a surprise.

If this isn't the case in this private hospital, maybe they should invest in some signs and curtains, in addition to reinforcing policies about entering occupied rooms.