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Princess Grace hospital cancelled vital surgery for woman who requested single-sex care

(846 Posts)
FarNorth Mon 31-Oct-22 15:01:30

Princess Grace hospital cancelled vital surgery for a woman who requested female-only staff and would not accept a transwoman nurse as female.

After many, many complaints from individuals HCA Healthcare UK (owner of Princess Grace Hospital) has now offered the surgery involving female-only staff, at its Wellington Hospital in London on October 31 .

mobile.twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1587082103086276609

growstuff Tue 01-Nov-22 16:38:42

This is the email sent on 6th October:

"Dear Staff

I attended Princess Grace Hospital today for a pre-op assessment. My surgery is due on Monday 10th October.

Before attending the assessment, I completed a questionnaire in which I explained that:

1. I wanted single sex bathroom / accommodation facilities during my stay, as per my rights under the Health and Social Care Act 2008 (Regulation 2014) as updated in 2022, and the CQC Fundamental Standards of Care relating to Dignity and Privacy, and in accordance with the Equality Act Schedule 3 Single Sex Exemption; and

2. that I would not agree to use pronouns or otherwise engage with such manifestations of gender ideology. This is in accordance with my beliefs which are deemed to be “worthy of respect in a democratic society” (as per the judgment in Forstate v CGD) and are also listed as one of the nine protected categories (Religion / Beliefs) under the Equality Act 2010.

I selected a private hospital specifically to avoid the NHS, because of the Annex B policy scandal, which has resulted in sexual assaults and rapes in mixed sex facilities, on an industrial scale, as recent FOI enquiries have made clear. I know this, because I am part of an enquiry into it. It is a fact that mixed sex hospital facilities are unsafe for women.

Only five years ago I would not have worried about this; however, the reality is that in the last few years, the use of online porn has grown exponentially. There are a myraid of porn genres (which have been monetised) and no end to the depths of depravity online. 2.8% of heterosexual men have a paraphilia of some kind. Everybody has a mobile phone. I do not wish to be exposed to risk while I am immobilised when I am in ICU following my surgery.

This matter is of sufficient importance to me that I regard the two requirements above as a condition of my contract with HCA.

The pre-op assessment which I had this afternoon at the Princess Grace Hospital included intimate procedures including [redacted]

Towards the end of my assessment, somebody knocked at and simultaneously opened the door without waiting to be invited to enter. The door opened onto a corridor. A young male in what appeared to be a blonde wig, wearing full evening make-up including bright scarlet lipstick peered at me. I am not sure wht his role was or what he was doing there. He made direct eye contact with me (which in itself was quite brazen and so disconcerting), then said something to the nurse and looked away.

I was horrified and shocked that any male member of staff would feel entitled to breach the privacy of a woman patient in such a way in these circumstances. It was especially egregious that this happened in the light of the advance notice I had given to the hospital.

All male staff should be required to knock at a door and WAIT for permission to enter before opening a door when a female patient is in a state of undress. This person obviously feels sufficiently entitled to walk in on a female patient and I find this to be very alarming. This transgression suggests that there is a lack fo discipline / training of male staff to respect the boundaries of female patients at HCA. Although this is following a societal trend (see above) I did not expect to encounter this in a central London private hospital. It makes me feel very nervous about aftercare.

None of this augurs well for women who are vulnerable following major surgery.

Accordingly I have to make the following requests:

1. While I naturally accept that Professor Faiz’s surgical team is mixed sex, I am again stating my wish that the nursing, auxiliary and support staff with whom I will be in immediate contact following surgery are FEMALE ONLY. Please note that trans-identifying males are NOT females.

2. I will accept male staff entering my room ONLY if they are qualified doctors unless by prior agreement with me.

3. I assume that I will have a private room with a private bathroom.

4. I insist that the above incidence is registered as a Patient Dignity Lapse on the hospital incident recording system.

Finally, in light of the above, I do feel that the hospital should follow a protocol of offering ALL women patients single-sex nursing care. Please do not make life difficult for women when they are at their most vulnerable by forcing them into uncomfortable and embarrassing situations. I cannot believe that I am the first patient to have raised this with you.

What are you doing to reassure female patients as to their privacy, comfort and dignity in accordance with the CQC Fundamental Standards in this regard. Does HCA guarantee same sex care to it women patients?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully
Teresa [redacted]
Solicitor (retired)"

This was the hospital's response, sent the next day on 7th October:

"From: [redacted]
Sent: 07 October 2022 19:36
To: [redacted]
Subject: Response from the Princess Grace Hospital

Dear [redacted]

Thank you for your email dated 6th October 2022.

We have reviewed the content of your email. We do not share yor beliefs and are not able to adhere to your requests and we have therefore decided we will not proceed with your surgery at The Princess Grace Hospital on Monday 10th October 2022. We have shared our decision with Professor Fiaz and recommend you make alternative arrangements.

I appreciate this is not the communication you were expecting to receive, however HCA is committed to protecting our staff from unacceptable distress and we believe the cornerstone of good patient care is based on mutual respect and trust."

Smileless2012 Tue 01-Nov-22 16:36:10

Yes, if the doctor is male but presenting as female a chaperone should be present.

Doodledog Tue 01-Nov-22 16:32:13

I sm speaking hypothetically, incidentally, before someone points out that the doctor in this case was not trans.

I keep saying - as we don’t know the full story, I am posting about the principle.

Doodledog Tue 01-Nov-22 16:30:41

And if the doctor is male presenting as female?

growstuff Tue 01-Nov-22 16:29:33

Prentice

Having read all the posts on this thread it seems to me that there was fault on both sides in this matter.
It was the choice of the patient to say what she did not want, as she was paying directly to a private hospital, and the hospital were providing what she wanted.The hospital was wrong to suddenly cancel her procedure and she was wrong really to object to somebody looking around a door at her, who she thought was a trans nurse.This nurse, trans or not was not doing any nursing duties.

How do you know what the nurse was doing? How do you even know if the person was a nurse? How do you know the person looked at her?

The hospital cancelled her procedure because she suddenly made additional demands which it couldn't meet.

growstuff Tue 01-Nov-22 16:26:48

Smileless2012

In answer to your question @ 13.05 Doodle I say yes. A female patient being intimately examined by a male identifying as female, should have a chaperone present.

I may be wrong but I thought this was always the case, to protect the patient and the doctor.

That's never been in dispute.

Prentice Tue 01-Nov-22 16:26:30

Having read all the posts on this thread it seems to me that there was fault on both sides in this matter.
It was the choice of the patient to say what she did not want, as she was paying directly to a private hospital, and the hospital were providing what she wanted.The hospital was wrong to suddenly cancel her procedure and she was wrong really to object to somebody looking around a door at her, who she thought was a trans nurse.This nurse, trans or not was not doing any nursing duties.

Rosie51 Tue 01-Nov-22 16:26:16

Fleurpepper

For info

Myth 1: Everybody is either born male or female

People often assume that the world is divided neatly into two groups of people, male and female, and that everyone’s biological and genetic characteristics fit into one of these two categories.

But this is not always the case. There are millions of people around the world who have sexual characteristics that do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies. Many, though not all, of these people identify as intersex.

Intersex is an umbrella term used to describe a wide range of natural variations that affect genitals, gonads, hormones, chromosomes or reproductive organs. Sometimes these characteristics are visible at birth, sometimes they appear at puberty, and sometimes they are not physically apparent at all.
Myth 2: Being intersex is very rare

According to experts, around 1.7% of the population is born with intersex traits – comparable to the number of people born with red hair.

Despite this, the term intersex is still widely misunderstood, and intersex people are massively underrepresented. This week a leaked memo from the Trump administration suggested that the US government is working towards new definitions of sex and gender, dividing them into “unchangeable” categories of male and female.

This would completely deny the existence of transgender and intersex people, with dangerous implications for human rights in the US and beyond.
Myth 3: Being intersex is a condition that needs to be corrected

Many intersex children undergo surgery in an effort to ‘normalise’ them – even though these interventions are often invasive, irreversible, and not performed for emergency reasons.

Although doctors and parents may be well meaning, the reality is that the procedures performed on intersex children can cause major problems, including infertility, pain, incontinence and lifelong psychological suffering. All this just to make children conform to society’s idea of what a girl or a boy ‘should’ look like.

They are not transgender either.

The statistics around intersex (a word hated by the people with a DSD that I know!) that you have quoted have been debunked time and again, but it suits some agendas to keep quoting them. This explains that they have included conditions that only arise in either males or females, so no ambiguity at all. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12476264/

Anne Fausto-Sterling s suggestion that the prevalence of intersex might be as high as 1.7% has attracted wide attention in both the scholarly press and the popular media. Many reviewers are not aware that this figure includes conditions which most clinicians do not recognize as intersex, such as Klinefelter syndrome, Turner syndrome, and late-onset adrenal hyperplasia. If the term intersex is to retain any meaning, the term should be restricted to those conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female. Applying this more precise definition, the true prevalence of intersex is seen to be about 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than Fausto-Sterling s estimate of 1.7%

There are only two sexes, male and female. Large gametes produced by females, small gametes produced by males. One of each required for sexual reproduction. There is no third, fourth or more sex, and no other gametes. Professor Robert Winston, one of the world's leading experts in fertility has confirmed this and that nobody can change sex. Do you really consider yourself more expert than him?

growstuff Tue 01-Nov-22 16:25:48

Mollygo

FarNorth

If that's the only problem, why did the hospital cancel the operation citing the patient's beliefs?

Yes, why?

They didn't. The hospital mentioned in a letter that it didn't agree with her beliefs and that her beliefs didn't change the fact that it couldn't provide what she was demanding. Ms Steele stated that she would not respect staff wishes to be recognised as a certain gender and it had a duty to protect its staff. The hospital cancelled the op because it doesn't have the facilities to satisfy her demands.

growstuff Tue 01-Nov-22 16:21:12

Jackiest

The hospital right at the beginning should have said no you can not chose the race, gender or colour of the people treating you.

She didn't ask for a choice.

Mollygo Tue 01-Nov-22 16:16:24

Hope you feel better for that VS.

VioletSky

The biggest issue trans people face is discrimination.

Strangely enough I think that’s right .

However, the root causes of any discrimination against trans are the TAF who caused and continue to cause the problems faced by all trans,
and the refusal of the TAF to accept that their actions harm females and trans
and their refusal to stop their inflammatory actions.
While TAF continue to discriminate against females, they are promulgating the discrimination against all trans not just themselves.

Jackiest Tue 01-Nov-22 16:01:32

The hospital right at the beginning should have said no you can not chose the race, gender or colour of the people treating you.

VioletSky Tue 01-Nov-22 15:56:30

The biggest issue trans people face is discrimination

Holding them all responsible for a one or even a few is discrimination

Mollygo Tue 01-Nov-22 15:53:28

VioletSky

Do I need to say it again?

Why not if that’s what you want to do.
It won’t make the fact that you can’t change sex any less true.
It won’t change the fact that some TAF have caused and continue to cause the problems females are experiencing, or the problems that trans innocent of causing the trouble are now facing. That will still be true.
But if it keeps you happy, go ahead and say it again.

Mollygo Tue 01-Nov-22 15:46:59

FarNorth

If that's the only problem, why did the hospital cancel the operation citing the patient's beliefs?

Yes, why?

VioletSky Tue 01-Nov-22 15:32:48

Do I need to say it again?

Mollygo Tue 01-Nov-22 15:31:24

VioletSky
The actions of one do not reflect badly on any demographic they belong too.

It’s not the wholly the actions of the one, although in this case it was only one.

The actions of the few(or you often say there are many) have caused the bad reflection on the demographic in this case.
Although I’m quite sure you will deny it, before males claiming to be ‘women’ started invading female safe spaces, or cheating in female competitions etc, did we ever read of females questioning the behaviour of TW who were doing none of those things?

LizzieDrip Tue 01-Nov-22 15:12:50

*VioletSky
The actions of one do not reflect badly on any demographic they belong too.

Thinking that is the case is the literal bread and butter of discrimination.
Again

Who agrees?*

Me!

Smileless2012 Tue 01-Nov-22 15:07:14

In answer to your question @ 13.05 Doodle I say yes. A female patient being intimately examined by a male identifying as female, should have a chaperone present.

I may be wrong but I thought this was always the case, to protect the patient and the doctor.

FarNorth Tue 01-Nov-22 14:57:23

Maybe.

Fleurpepper Tue 01-Nov-22 14:47:49

FarNorth

I don't see how mixed race is relevant to trans, tho, as a child born of a female and male is not mixed sex.
Only a very few people have a DSD and they are not the ones claiming to be trans.

The point I am making- the same sometimes shows, and sometimes does not. Why does it matter if it shows, but not if it doesn't- when it is the same thing. And in those dreadful apartheid days, those where it 'showed' were treated as if they were a lower race, with very limited life chances. But this did not happen if it didn't 'show'. We now believe that was inhumane, cruel and outrageous, but in those days, some white supporters of Apartheid would have said that anyone with darker skin would be a danger, and a form of assault, if they used the same toilets, or trains, never mind actually nurse them. And they believed in this **. Perhaps in a generation, we will think the same about trans people. That they are just people, human beings, most good, a few bad, as for any group.

growstuff Tue 01-Nov-22 14:19:33

Incidentally, the surgeon who was to perform the op is male.

Wyllow3 Tue 01-Nov-22 14:14:42

VioletSky

VioletSky

The actions of one do not reflect badly on any demographic they belong too.

Thinking that is the case is the literal bread and butter of discrimination.

Again

Who agrees?

Me.

FarNorth Tue 01-Nov-22 14:12:02

I don't see how mixed race is relevant to trans, tho, as a child born of a female and male is not mixed sex.
Only a very few people have a DSD and they are not the ones claiming to be trans.

growstuff Tue 01-Nov-22 14:11:20

Incidentally, there wasn't more going on than form-filling. The patient admitted as much.