Princess Grace hospital cancelled vital surgery for woman who requested single-sex care

Sparklefizz , why do you assume I haven't been attacked?

Because you seem to have no empathy. If you have been attacked in the past, then you have all my sympathy and apologies.

So that's a mystery HousePlantQueen.
How could she possibly know?

I sometimes open a space looking for someone, make eye contact with faces that might be the person or realise they are busy and then leave again

It's a biiiiig stretch

Has it been confirmed this was indeed the trans nurse in question? Or did she make an assumption that someone masculine appearing was trans?

Because if she looked at someone she thought was "presenting as female" and decided she had features that were too masculine in some way o they must be trans then that's gender stereotyping and has roots in sexism

It is stated that the patient was upset because a trans nurse "entered the room' .....how did she know? Not wishing to offended but nursing uniforms are unisex.

It doesn’t seem to be about her procedure or after care.

From what I can read she requested an all female team which was agreed.

Then whilst she was having a pre-op procedure the trans person, who was not involved in the op or the care in any way came into her room and “made eye contact” then left.

She says she felt that person was targeting her in some way. Certainly they had no reason to go into her room at that point.

The whole thing needs investigation by (if it’s possible) a disinterested person.

None of this sounds right. But nobody undergoing a procedure should feel intimidated by medical staff.

I notice that all on this thread who think the patient was unreasonable, do acknowledge that a transwoman nurse is a male nurse.

I have acknowledged no such thing. You are making 2 + 2 = 5.

Allsorts

I think it’s unrealistic to have an all female team. I can’t see a problem with her not accepting a trans as female, it’s up to her what she thinks, but it shouldn’t affect their role as a health professional. It’s who is available and the best person available to carry out the procedure. She either needed the surgery or didn’t.

Agree

As others have said, we would never allow someone to say they wouldn't be treated by any other demographic and a hospital can only work with staff they have.

It might be uncomfortable but it is also life saving

As a customer of a, no doubt very expensive, private hospital this woman should have had much better communication from them if they had difficulty with her request.

Several people here are saying the transwoman was not involved in her care.
Why then did he approach her at all?

I think asking for an all female team might be difficult to comply with. There are significantly fewer women surgeons In 2020, there were 10 420 consultants and 6525 registrars working in one of the 10 surgical specialties in the UK, of which 1680 (16.1%) and 2230 (34.2%) were female, respectively.

VioletSky

Er...

No.

For Beverly

I'm not derogatory or rude, I've read about the situation and have shared my opinion based on that

I think it’s unrealistic to have an all female team. I can’t see a problem with her not accepting a trans as female, it’s up to her what she thinks, but it shouldn’t affect their role as a health professional. It’s who is available and the best person available to carry out the procedure. She either needed the surgery or didn’t.

fleurpepper racism is not a protected belief in the UK, belief in the reality of biological sex is a protected belief.

If a white person, in apartheid S Africa, had been attacked by a black woman and if statistics showed that black women were a significant risk to white people, perhaps that white person would be reasonable, rather than prejudiced, in your scenario .

Those things did not apply to black women, and do apply to men in general.

Oh Ok. Never been nervous of a male? You’re lucky.

Er...

No.

VioletSky

Just seems to me she has made her Surgery about trans people and supporting her beliefs/opinions rather than any real anxiety or fear.

If she has a deep rooted fear of men, as a women who looks to be an intelligent ex professional who must have existed in the world where she would be coming into contact with men...

Perhaps she should get some therapy because it's not healthy for her

Don’t you think the knowledge that she would be unconscious for a number of hours was important in her fear?

It’s a bit different to just coming into contact with males in everyday life.

I mean Im fine with men in town during the day but walking home at night I’m pretty wary of the male lurking on the corner.

Circumstances make an enormous difference.

VioletSky

Is this the one who instead of respectfully asking to have and all female care team, went ahead in a very derogatory way? Stating her beliefs, that she won't use pronouns, that people can't change gender and then decided she was some sort of target because someone she believed to be trans (from a quick glance) made eye contact with her?

Who is now using her surgery to get lots and lots of attention over a situation she caused by being rude?

There are ways to have your beliefs and be a polite and respectful human being.

I hope if she ever ends up in a situation where one of our trans medical community or a man saves her life she will be grateful.

If people had a DNTIBM, Do Not Treat If Biologically Male order of some description this could easily play havoc in hospitals who may not have the surgical or care staff with the correct genitals to care for people who need it.

No, this is not what happened at all. I suggest you read about what actually was requested - which was a single sex bathroom and intimate care post-operatively while she was immobilised to be given by a female member of staff only.

Not surprised at all by your comment and your unfortunate attitude given the views you usually express on here.

Whatever your opinion or imaginings of what happen to other people, women in the UK have the right to single sex provision of services both under the Equality Act and under NHS guidelines.

The woman in question is a lawyer and is absolutely clear where the lines are drawn with regard to using correct pronouns and so on. She was not rude. You should apologise for your derogatory & false remarks …..and for your rudeness.

If I was the management of the hospital I would be wanting to know why any member of staff was going in to a patient during an intimate procedure, when they had absolutely no reason to do so.

🤔

Just seems to me she has made her Surgery about trans people and supporting her beliefs/opinions rather than any real anxiety or fear.

If she has a deep rooted fear of men, as a women who looks to be an intelligent ex professional who must have existed in the world where she would be coming into contact with men...

Perhaps she should get some therapy because it's not healthy for her

Sparklefizz , why do you assume I haven't been attacked?
growdstuff well ' said' I couldn't agree more!

I really do believe there is more to this story!

Lathyrus

growstuff

Fleurpepper

What if she had been attacked by a black woman, or a Jewish man, or a Chinese?

I meant, it is possible to make specific requests, perhaps, in extreme circumstances. But the health services are so stretched, with a great shortage of qualified staff, it is not possible to guarantee what happens on the day.

It's a private hospital. It sounds as though this woman thought her money could buy exactly what she demanded.

I agree with Visgirl that there's more to this story.

Putting aside the moral Euston for the moment.

If we pay for something most of us expect to get what we paid for I suppose.

If the hospital took her money with the agreement that it would be all female staff, that’s what they should have provided. If they couldn’t provide it on the specified day did they breach their contract?

Is selling private medicine is the same as selling anything else?

Yes, agreed to some extent that the situation was different to NHS, as it was private and they had agreed. But as said, all hospitals are really stretched, perhaps they had illness/Covid, whatever, and realised they just could not guarantee women only. and cancelled. It is not clear if they gave her the choice.

Certainly in NHS, no such guarantee can be given. They can say they will try, and can do no more.

As said, it does create precedent of acceptable discrimination. What about my cousin in South Africa- who was not allowed to come anywhere near white patients? What if one of those patients had been attacked by a coloured woman in the past? Would that make it OK?

As it happens, my cousin was employed in a very posh white only hospital, by one of the Consultants who had worked with here in London. She worked in Theatre, and only after patients were asleep, and before they woke up! Apartheid hey? GOOD on him/them- the whole team at the hospital.

Hmm. It was a bit more than just a transgender person coming into a room from her account.

She was in the middle of a pre-op procedure- maybe shaving?- given that it was a bowel op. And she said that eye contact was made in a way that made her feel she was being targeted in some way.

Eye contact can be very threatening particularly if you know you are going to be unconscious very shortly.

Why did the trans person even need to go into her room if they weren’t involved in her care?

Is this the one who instead of respectfully asking to have and all female care team, went ahead in a very derogatory way? Stating her beliefs, that she won't use pronouns, that people can't change gender and then decided she was some sort of target because someone she believed to be trans (from a quick glance) made eye contact with her?

Who is now using her surgery to get lots and lots of attention over a situation she caused by being rude?

There are ways to have your beliefs and be a polite and respectful human being.

I hope if she ever ends up in a situation where one of our trans medical community or a man saves her life she will be grateful.

If people had a DNTIBM, Do Not Treat If Biologically Male order of some description this could easily play havoc in hospitals who may not have the surgical or care staff with the correct genitals to care for people who need it.

Good point Lathyrus.

I notice that all on this thread who think the patient was unreasonable, do acknowledge that a transwoman nurse is a male nurse.

If the hospital was unable to meet the patient's request, they should have explained that to her rather than leave her to meet a transwoman nurse while being treated.

Bearing in mind that trans people are a minute percentage of the population, can their staff really be so 'diverse' that it's impossible for them to provide care that doesn't involve trans staff?