Princess Grace hospital cancelled vital surgery for woman who requested single-sex care

Galaxy

Because you are talking about dress like a woman and act like a woman, I didnt mention pronouns I dont think. Women and men can dress however they like it has no impact on their sex.

Even if someone has been through the whole transition process- hormones and full surgical reversal, looks like a woman, behaves like a woman (whatever that means!) have a woman voice and features, is married to a normal man?

My niece has done all that, changed her name, is called Mrs xyz, and you would never ever guess she was born a man. Gametes- you will say. But no penis, no gonads, a vagina, breasts, lovely legs and hands. Who has the right to decide that she can't call herself a female name, work and live as a female, and be a wonderful carer, to both men and women. And certainly not a threat to anyone!

People who are physically disabled can call themselves however they want. I wouldn't expect the same privilege to use language that could be seen as derogatory or offensive.

Glorianny
Asking a person who is dressed in trousers and a shirt with braces, with hair cut short what pronoun she prefers? It might be "she" because she's a butch lesbian, it might be "they" because she's non-binary or it could be "he" because he's trans. It might even be "she" because she just 'likes what are termed "boy's clothes"

Boys clothes? Butch Lesbian?
You are stereotyping again. Tut, tut tut!

What a strange world you live in. I don’t ask anyone which pronoun they prefer, because if I’m talking to them I use “you”.

I dont know where we stand in terms of pronouns now with regard to children and young people following the concerns in the cass report about social transition and the new NHS guidelines.

Because you are talking about dress like a woman and act like a woman, I didnt mention pronouns I dont think. Women and men can dress however they like it has no impact on their sex.

Galaxy

Those ideas enforce sterotypes thankfully much of the guidance to schools now challenges those stereotypes. Certainly in my workplace the trainjng has changed so thankfully they dont like clothes, toys, etc to someones sex.

What ideas Galaxy? Asking a person who is dressed in trousers and a shirt with braces, with hair cut short what pronoun she prefers? It might be "she" because she's a butch lesbian, it might be "they" because she's non-binary or it could be "he" because he's trans. It might even be "she" because she just 'likes what are termed "boy's clothes" How can that perpetuate a stereotype? It's diversity in action!
As for disabilities some are hidden and some prefer not to use the term disabled-I respect that as well. There are even those who use the term "Crips"
Would it be better if I just insisted on using language these people don't like? Is that fighting stereotypes?

Language is very powerful which is why I am so resistant to the way it is being used to manipulate thinking.

Words describe concepts. If you take away a word the concept dies with it. Look what’s happening to woman, mother, female, she, her, girl, daughter, niece, and more. When the concept of what it means to be female has gone, along with the limited protections that have been fought for, what will replace it? We’ve already seen ‘bleeders’, people who menstruate, chest feeders, people with vaginas and so on. That can be explained away as being ‘inclusive’ of the tiny minority of transpeople who don’t understand that however often they say the magic words, and however much Kool Aid they have drunk, they remain in the sex they are born, but it has chilling connotations of dehumanisation and separatism, as well as reducing the people who used to be women to the status of breeding stock.

No women’s rights, spaces, wards, prisons or anywhere for women at all, as we don’t exist as a sex, but have become a ‘gender choice’ which includes people who don’t menstruate, have babies or go through menopause. People who are physically bigger and stronger (on the whole). Who have different and more aggressive hormones, and who already have a lot more political and administrative power than we do. What will happen to ‘women’s rights’ then?

Nor in mine, Galaxy.
Strangely enough, even when I first started teaching, and still now, some boys prefer the fairy tale costumes or the donated bridesmaids dresses to the pirate outfit or camouflage clothes, no one pounced or pounces on them with suggestions that they are not male, or are homosexual.
If boys are in the ‘home corner’ and girls outside with big construction toys, so what?
Now they can choose school uniform from skirt or trousers with no reference to sex.
There is no pressure in school to be either
and our RSE curriculum has just been praised by OFSTED.
It is what goes on outside school and is then brought into school that causes problems.

Glorianny

JaneJudge

there are ways of doing that without ostracising people, I have found

perhaps also of doing it without having to cry "misogyny" or accuse people of having breakdowns.
After all you really know nothing about me.

It was misogyny and it is part of the problem. You are unwilling to accept it but it isn't only me who has problems with certain words being used to address women. Hysterical and shrill are in that group too. Language can be a powerful tool.

Dont link that should say

Those ideas enforce sterotypes thankfully much of the guidance to schools now challenges those stereotypes. Certainly in my workplace the trainjng has changed so thankfully they dont like clothes, toys, etc to someones sex.

You live with it I fight against it. Lots of people do tolerate stereotypes about sex about race about disability, others dont.

Galaxy

The whole present as women and live as women is like something out of the Victorian ages. It's so regressive and based utterly in sterotypes.

It is how society operates Galaxy. You may not like it. You might wish things were different. I've certainly done my bit to blur the edges of those roles. But it still operates. It's why young women are dismissed easily when pregnant. It's why there is a gender pay gap that is getting bigger. If I could wave a magic wand and wipe it all away I would. Meanwhile I'll live with it. And one of the things I like about trans and non binary people is that sometimes I have to ask which pronoun they prefer. Which is going some way towards eliminating the stereotypes you dislike.

JaneJudge

there are ways of doing that without ostracising people, I have found

perhaps also of doing it without having to cry "misogyny" or accuse people of having breakdowns.
After all you really know nothing about me.

The whole present as women and live as women is like something out of the Victorian ages. It's so regressive and based utterly in sterotypes.

Lathyrus

And yet another diversionary tactic🥱

That was to Glorianny in case there’s any doubt.

I came in late. I’ve been to the theatre😬

I do wish I had not been eating while reading your last comment*Fleurpepper*.

And yet another diversionary tactic🥱

No one has taken over anything. Transwomen are women. They present as women. They are therefore subjected to the same oppressions as women
What a pile of rubbish!
TIM or TW can only call themselves women because the word was corrupted to facilitate male use of the word.
The fact is that transwomen or TIM or TW are male. Some chose and would like to live unnoticed and peacefully as ‘women’, like the niece referred to by FP. They don’t need or want transactivists shouting for them.
Unfortunately the raucous demonstrations by both TW and the TA who feel TIM are entitled to female rights is beginning to make that impossible.
The oppression of TW you complain about was and is being caused by males.
The oppression of females was and is also caused by males.

there are ways of doing that without ostracising people, I have found

Iam64

Glorianny

JaneJudge

Glory, you posted that comment on purpose to get a rise. I make no excuse for being working class and educated. It isn't sad that the working class have been involved in theatre

My working class roots are as good if not better than yours. Shall we compare notes? Born in a council house, parents left school at 14. Grandfather a docker died of TB. Grandmother a waitress/barmaid. Mother had many different jobs as did my dad. But a family that believed in education, socialism, unions and activism.
I missed a full stop out
It is sad. The working class have always been involved in theatre. sorry fast finger fault. It's sad that people think theatre is middle class

Eh up. This reads like the 3 Yorkshire men sketch. My dads more working class than your dad as a means of proving something. What the something is, beyond me

Oh me too but when someone tells me I'm getting at them because they are working class I tend to react. My grandfather, politically committed, self educated was one of the cleverest people around. My mum went to a school where they taught girls to clean houses (honestly that was what they did for the last term) but self educated as well. When people start telling me theatre is not working class I tend to get a bit agitated. The Labour Party has lots of historical links with theatre. Shouldn't do it but when you are taught to speak out from an early age it's difficult to stop.

FarNorth

'Full reversal' of what Fleur?

Of course Not All Men but we all know why some things are single sex.

Sexual organs- yes, a penis cut of and then inverted inside out to create a vagina. Now it makes my eyes water- but this is how its done, and apparently, it works very well.

Glorianny

JaneJudge

Glory, you posted that comment on purpose to get a rise. I make no excuse for being working class and educated. It isn't sad that the working class have been involved in theatre

My working class roots are as good if not better than yours. Shall we compare notes? Born in a council house, parents left school at 14. Grandfather a docker died of TB. Grandmother a waitress/barmaid. Mother had many different jobs as did my dad. But a family that believed in education, socialism, unions and activism.
I missed a full stop out
It is sad. The working class have always been involved in theatre. sorry fast finger fault. It's sad that people think theatre is middle class

Eh up. This reads like the 3 Yorkshire men sketch. My dads more working class than your dad as a means of proving something. What the something is, beyond me

Glory, are you having some kind of breakdown? my family were gypsies and miners

No, I didn't mean that. In fact, in an effort to cause no offence I have asked for a mutually acceptable name to use, but had it thrown back in my face. I even explained why I am not comfortable with Intersectional Feminist, but that met with unpleasantness too.

If you read back over your posts from the last few years days, you will see exactly what I was getting at.