Princess Grace hospital cancelled vital surgery for woman who requested single-sex care

Doodledog

It is also sad that these debates are spoilt by snide comments and insinuations, as well as attempts to score points.

You mean like calling people transactivists because you claim not to know what they really are?
I completely agree.

JaneJudge

sorry doodledog

Not you 😂

JaneJudge

Glory, you posted that comment on purpose to get a rise. I make no excuse for being working class and educated. It isn't sad that the working class have been involved in theatre

My working class roots are as good if not better than yours. Shall we compare notes? Born in a council house, parents left school at 14. Grandfather a docker died of TB. Grandmother a waitress/barmaid. Mother had many different jobs as did my dad. But a family that believed in education, socialism, unions and activism.
I missed a full stop out
It is sad. The working class have always been involved in theatre. sorry fast finger fault. It's sad that people think theatre is middle class

FarNorth

^feminism, which should at the very least permit any woman to reject the gender label.^

Of course it does, and doing that doesn't mean that a female is actually a male, even if she thinks she is.

People can be mistaken, even in their ideas about themselves, and we don't all have to believe them regardless.

Many gender critical feminists have constantly posted that transmen are women, in other words they are not permitted to call themselves men. Whatever you may believe them to be respecting them and their views requires acknowledging they wish to be called men and referred to as 'he'.

sorry doodledog

It is also sad that these debates are spoilt by snide comments and insinuations, as well as attempts to score points.

Glory, you posted that comment on purpose to get a rise. I make no excuse for being working class and educated. It isn't sad that the working class have been involved in theatre

feminism, which should at the very least permit any woman to reject the gender label.

It's not just feminism which should permit anyone, male or female, to reject the gender label. Anyone should be able to act as they wish/in accordance with the 'needs of their authentic selves'/however you want to describe it. If those wishes are traditionally associated with the opposite sex, so what? If more people pushed to have those associations diluted or dropped, so that people could do what they like in the sex that they are, and not feel that their body is 'wrong' because they prefer some behaviours over others, then life would be simpler all round.

If transpeople are really the most marginalised group in society, as they claim, they could avoid that marginalisation. Children needn't be pushed to make life-changing decisions before their bodies or minds have matured. Women could keep their spaces for safety reasons and men in dresses could use the Gents'. Yes, there would be a transitional period (no pun intended) until men got used to it, but IMO in the end things would settle down to a generally happier state, with nobody hidebound by gender expectations unless it suited them.

JaneJudge

Glorianny

JaneJudge

Are you making class assumptions about me?

What????
Because I mentioned theatre??? Theatre can be any class

Or meet some theatre people

I know plenty. Weird how you knew it was that comment

It isn't even a full moon.

Some people seem to believe that theatre is middle class. It's quite a common perception so I have heard it before. It's very sad the working class have always been involved in theatre. There's a great socialist tradition linked with it.

safeguarding is in place because some people aren't nice

Fleurpepper

''The whole point is that there is no way of knowing if a man is one of the deviant people who may or may not be trans so he has to be regarded as a possible threat just as all men must.''

so must apply to doctors too. And physios, and teachers, all of them. Especially is they put their head around the door, off with them.

''People can be mistaken, even in their ideas about themselves, and we don't all have to believe them regardless.''

but how will you know? I have 4 close friends who are trans. 3 have had full reversal- 2 you would know, 2 you would never even begin to guess. the 3rd has not had reversal, and like to dress consevatively as a female, but never pretends to be. She is the only one who is a drag Queen at night, sometimes.

Neither of them are any danger or threat to anyone. Caring, gentle, sensitive, kind. Why should they have to suffer froms discrimination because a few trans behave badly. And why should they have to go to toilets were they are likely to be mocked and bullied at best, and very likely to be badly beaten up or raped 'to show them what's what'.

Too right it should apply to those who have access to the most vulnerable in society. Teachers and doctors included.

In other words, why should the most vulnerable be put at risk because your friends are gentle souls?

Risk assessments seek to reduce the risks posed in the simplest, most sensible way, first and foremost.

Why call a man 'she' if he never pretends to be female Fleur?

'Full reversal' of what Fleur?

Of course Not All Men but we all know why some things are single sex.

MissAdventure

I think there could be some major hissy fits if some people used that term to "some people".

😂

''The whole point is that there is no way of knowing if a man is one of the deviant people who may or may not be trans so he has to be regarded as a possible threat just as all men must.''

so must apply to doctors too. And physios, and teachers, all of them. Especially is they put their head around the door, off with them.

''People can be mistaken, even in their ideas about themselves, and we don't all have to believe them regardless.''

but how will you know? I have 4 close friends who are trans. 3 have had full reversal- 2 you would know, 2 you would never even begin to guess. the 3rd has not had reversal, and like to dress consevatively as a female, but never pretends to be. She is the only one who is a drag Queen at night, sometimes.

Neither of them are any danger or threat to anyone. Caring, gentle, sensitive, kind. Why should they have to suffer froms discrimination because a few trans behave badly. And why should they have to go to toilets were they are likely to be mocked and bullied at best, and very likely to be badly beaten up or raped 'to show them what's what'.

Now what you need to get your head around is that intersectional feminists believe transwomen are women.

If you could get your head around your sense of superiority long enough to actually read my post, you would see that I pointed out that the crux of the matter is the belief or otherwise in TWAW. I completely understand that, which was the basis of my post.

FarNorth

Glorianny intersectional feminists did not originally believe transwomen are women.
It was about women of all kinds, as you did describe, and not about men of any kind.
The term has been taken over by those who do claim to believe that.

The whole point is that there is no way of knowing if a man is one of the deviant people who may or may not be trans so he has to be regarded as a possible threat just as all men must.

No one has taken over anything. Transwomen are women. They present as women. They are therefore subjected to the same oppressions as women

I thought all men were not threats? Just the bad ones. Or does everyone think their partner and their sons, brothers and fathers are threats. Isn't that a bit like fundamentalists? Does that mean all women must be victims? Because isn't that heading down the road of making women cover themselves because men can't be trusted to restrain themselves.

feminism, which should at the very least permit any woman to reject the gender label.

Of course it does, and doing that doesn't mean that a female is actually a male, even if she thinks she is.

People can be mistaken, even in their ideas about themselves, and we don't all have to believe them regardless.

Oh yes,
I remember intersectional feminism. It was an excuse for people to avoid having to support females whilst still claiming to be feminists.
I’m trying to recall which posters were the acolytes of the system. I remember it being something to do with being told to be kind, implying that feminists weren’t.
As I recall, it was a group, discriminatory against the feminists whose concerns were focused on the wellbeing and safety of females.
I’ve been at work till an hour ago, so I missed the lectures from you Glorianny darling.

Glorianny intersectional feminists did not originally believe transwomen are women.
It was about women of all kinds, as you did describe, and not about men of any kind.
The term has been taken over by those who do claim to believe that.

The whole point is that there is no way of knowing if a man is one of the deviant people who may or may not be trans so he has to be regarded as a possible threat just as all men must.

Glorianny

JaneJudge

Are you making class assumptions about me?

What????
Because I mentioned theatre??? Theatre can be any class

Or meet some theatre people

I know plenty. Weird how you knew it was that comment

It isn't even a full moon.

I think there could be some major hissy fits if some people used that term to "some people".

especially on strictly apparently, whatever that is

JaneJudge

Are you making class assumptions about me?

What????
Because I mentioned theatre??? Theatre can be any class

I have never seen anyone call another GN poster 'darling' before so it did seem quite odd, regardless of how common it may be elsewhere.