Constant Back Pain

I would push for a blood test as well to rule out any thing else. Obviously it's 99% certain it's the discs but it would be as well to rule out anything else.

Referral for MRI must vary according to area. My private physio suggested an x-ray when I reported some concerning symptoms. The physio wrote to my GP who considered and said, no you need an MRI and promptly referred me. As a result I’ve been treated by a specialist hospital physio attached to the pain clinic. He referred me onwards for rhizolysis which does seem to be helping pain in one area. Onwards now to the rest of the pain sites.

I’m so sorry if help isn’t there for people. I do understand how debilitating and disabling constant pain is.

" was advised by an experienced physio not to let anyone manipulate my neck because of a risk of damage to the vertebral arteries."

Seriously folks - do not let anyone non-medical go near your spine - even a small "manipulation" can leave you with life-changing problems. This includes chiropractors and osteopaths.

henetha

Thank you, MadeInYorkshire. I've read your post , and others, with great interest. I'm sorry about your pain and
abdominal hernia. It sounds horrendous.
I'm not at all convinced that my spine is arthritic. I had COVID recently and couldn't do anything at all. Consequently I had no back pain whatsoever . Everyone knows that arthritis is still painful even when doing nothing.
I must just explain why I cannot take anti inflammatories, it's because I was on them for years (while waiting for replacement knee surgery) and they ruined my digestion to the extent that I must never take them again or risk an ulcer or worse.
Without further nagging my local surgery I don't know what else to do except just live with this . My pleas have got me nowhere. I tell myself that I'm too old anyway for treatment now and so must just endure.
But I wish you luck in finding an answer to your pain.

Ahh, shame about the anti-inflammatories, that's the big downside to those

With my degenerative discs, there are probably some slipped out as well, and having lived with it for many years, the only thing I can do to relieve it is sit down! I already take Fentanyl to keep me 'comfortable', have Morphine for a crisis (like my bowel dying or a blockage) and take codeine at night, for pain and also because it helps with restless legs.

So, it looks as though yours could be the same problem, but as we've all said, only an MRI can really give you a proper diagnosis.

If it were me, the next time you go in, ask for a referral, if they refuse, ask the person you are speaking to why they are refusing, if you do not get a suitable response, ask for a copy of their 'Complaints Procedure'. Tell them you have been ? times and got nowhere, so you would like to formally make a complaint. You can always copy it in to your local Integrated Health Board as they are called now.

These people are obviously trying to sell a service but it tells you what can be done -

www.drarunghosh.co.uk/gmg-blog/can-my-gp-refuse-to-refer-me-to-a-specialist/

... and these people would be worth a call for advice too

healthwatchdevon.co.uk/meetings-reports/official-complaints/

A cranial osteopath is the best type. No manipulation involved and in fact the first time I had a session, I thought she had done nothing at all, but I was wrong. I wouldn't let someone manipulate or crunch me.

I have degenerative osteoarthritis of the cervical vertebrae and I was advised by an experienced physio not to let anyone manipulate my neck because of a risk of damage to the vertebral arteries.

So I “live with it” unless it becomes so bad that it impairs use of arms or legs, or bladder, then a risky op is possible!

I take painkillers at bed time when it is worse, but can’t take anti inflammatory analgesics. I’m resisting taking stronger meds for as long as possible.

Sorry to say back pain seems to be uncurable once its set in, and I've been suffering from it since the 1970s. I broke a vertebra and am told its healed. The pain clinic seemed only able to suggest I upped my dose of morphine.
So I am pretty convinced in my head that once back-pain has set in its here to stay.
That sounds gloomy, but once you've accepted it you can start to live your life again.
Take all that's on offer for pain relief and adjust it to your own life style.
The biggest thing thats helped me has been my referral to a hydro therapy pool (by my GP, who has told me there is nothing more to be done and I must live with it.)

I would always choose an appropriate and experienced physio over an osteopath or chiropractor.

3 times an NHS physio has messed me up and made my back or neck much worse, so I would always choose a good osteopath any time. It cost me over £200 with an osteopath to put right the damage done by my last NHS physio, so I won't be following their advice any time soon.

Joseanne My cousin is a physio specialising in backs and trained under a Doctor called Robin Mckenzie who has written a helpful book which gives exercises. The best advice I had was to spend a little while each day lying flat on my tummy which stretches the back.

That Robin McKenzie book is great and full of easy to follow advice depending on severity. I have got his book on back problems, and also the one for necks.

Thank you Joseanne and Luckygirl3.
Yes, I am in Devon. I certainly didn't know that the RDE have a spinal unit. I will definitely give my surgery one last push for a referral. Don't hold your breath though.
Having to pay for back treatment and surgery yourself is dreadful. It certainly is wrong. Hopefully it was completely successful.

"Too old for treatment and must endure." Well, knickers to that! Pain is pain whether you are new born or 100, and needs treating.
I had to go private for.my back treatment and surgery .... goodbye savings, hello life! It is wrong that I had to do this.

henetha I might be wrong, but I think you're in Devon? The RDE has one of the best spinal units in the country, so you need to push for a consultation, even to establish the cause. The consultant there who set it up is a genius and introduced innovative back surgical procedures in the 1980s. PM me if you want his name.

Thank you, MadeInYorkshire. I've read your post , and others, with great interest. I'm sorry about your pain and
abdominal hernia. It sounds horrendous.
I'm not at all convinced that my spine is arthritic. I had COVID recently and couldn't do anything at all. Consequently I had no back pain whatsoever . Everyone knows that arthritis is still painful even when doing nothing.
I must just explain why I cannot take anti inflammatories, it's because I was on them for years (while waiting for replacement knee surgery) and they ruined my digestion to the extent that I must never take them again or risk an ulcer or worse.
Without further nagging my local surgery I don't know what else to do except just live with this . My pleas have got me nowhere. I tell myself that I'm too old anyway for treatment now and so must just endure.
But I wish you luck in finding an answer to your pain.

Chronic back pain is extremely debilitating and I feel so sorry for you.

Yes Joseanne GPs in my area are unable to refer for CT to MRI scans, without consultant input.

I would always choose an appropriate and experienced physio over an osteopath or chiropractor.

Pain clinic is a good idea or private referral to orthopaedic consultant, if GP won’t refer on NHS.

Oh, poor you, it's so painful. Only an MRI will show the extent of the problem and which nerves are affected. Usually to order this type of scan you need to see a specialist first. At our private hospital consultations are around £150 plus £1,000 for an MRI.
My cousin is a physio specialising in backs and trained under a Doctor called Robin Mckenzie who has written a helpful book which gives exercises. The best advice I had was to spend a little while each day lying flat on my tummy which stretches the back.

Smudgie

Hi there. You can ask your GP to refer you to the Pain Management Team at your nearest hospital. My daughter was a pain specialist nurse in that department until recently. They can arrange scans, better pain relief than the GP, epidural for spinal stenosis, xrays etc. I see no reason why the GP would refuse to refer you and if they did you could ask advice from the Team on the phone yourself. Good Luck.

Probably get money back in funding for less referrals, sadly ...

*Glammanana and *henetha - this is so bad!

My discs have degenerated because I have been effectively 8 months pregnant with a massive abdominal hernia for around 15 years.

You do need a scan - how do they actually KNOW it's arthritis, just because of your age? RIDICULOUS!

In any case, if is arthritis, ("itis" meaning inflammation) then rather than Co-codamol (Zapain), surely an anti-INFLAMMATORY medication would be more effective, such as Ibuprofen? You can alternate the 2 meds. Also what you are getting, possibly rather than arthritis, is Sciatica, were the Sciatic Nerve is pinched and the pain travels through that nerve down into the leg. Nerve pain really is painful, as you both know! One of the best medications for that is low dose Amitryptyline, which they found by accident really helped nerve pain. I don't understand why either of you have been given it, and just given opioid medications?

They can also give steroid injections too if your case is suitable - sounds like very lazy GP'ing to me ....

If you can afford to pay for the MRI scan, you should go ahead with it. Despite being assured that my painful back would be sorted out with physio, it was an MRI scan which showed I had a piece of disc embedded in the sciatic nerve and also showed spinal stenosis. Have the scan first, then you know exactly what is going on with your spine. I wish you lots of luck.

An MRI scan costs around £850, depending on which part of the country you live.

In theory you should be able to see your GP and ask for an orthopaedic referral. If you try that, do your homework first and find orthopaedic surgeons whose main interest is in spinal care. It is better to have a name and tell your GP this is who you would like to be referred to please.

I appreciate they are all trying to save money and many think at our age we can just "get on with it".I am fortunate to have a GP who does not give a thought to age but to the medical condition and if that can be treated.

I was wondering if an X ray would help first, it's cheaper, and would show whats happening to those 4 discs now?

GP may agree to refer for X ray on the NHS?

The other matter that struck me is how long is it since you got those physio exercises prescribed, as the particular ones appropriate may have now have changed if your back problems have and its been years?

My GP would not refer me to have an X-ray. I had a repeat dexoscan as had previously been diagnosed as osteopenic, along with spinal degeneration and curvature of spine was reported this time. GP said my treatment would be no different if I had X+ray. Paid for one privately. This told me I had arthritis of spine, my curvature was going to the right and I had osteophytes. (Little bony protrusions coming from the spine.). I am hoping with this more detailed info the physio will be able to give me more targeted stretches and exercises. Pain medication has very little effect I find. Wondering about a tens machine, anyone tried one?

Thanks so much for the replies I will certainly look at speaking to my GP about the pain management clinic.

Hi there. You can ask your GP to refer you to the Pain Management Team at your nearest hospital. My daughter was a pain specialist nurse in that department until recently. They can arrange scans, better pain relief than the GP, epidural for spinal stenosis, xrays etc. I see no reason why the GP would refuse to refer you and if they did you could ask advice from the Team on the phone yourself. Good Luck.

I have suffered from a bad back for several years and found the most effective treatment was to consult a registered osteopath. As to a private MRI scan, if you are near a private hospital or GP practice it might be worth contacting them and enquiring about having a scan done. They should be able to give you advice and information.

I wish I could help. As a back pain sufferer myself I know how you feel. I've tried so hard to get help and failed. I've been down the physio route, twice, and asked for a scan as I don't entirely believe the arthritis diagnosis. I was told there is no need for a scan. The diagnosis is correct, the doctor said.
I do exercises which the physios taught me but they do not help reduce the pain. However they do help us to stay flexible which is good I think.
I take paracetamol and codeine. I'm told to take six per day but don't as they has such a bad effect on my digestion. I try to cope with just two or three a day. I've learnt when I need them, like just before going shopping for instance.
I wish I could afford private advice, and a scan. I wonder how much it costs? Good luck with your efforts to get help. I know how horrible it is to live with back pain.