Assisted dying: Parliamentary public consultstion

Thankyou for that Caleo, very helpful.

I’m not asking anyone for specific information on their pills, Germanshepherdsmum, can’t help just wondering though, and Caleo has suggested a source of information which I think will be of interest to many.

Thank you to all those who have completed the survey.

Caleo, that’s a brilliant way of putting it. I replied a while back, and a lot of my focus was on equitable access (it’s wrong that those with money can choose assisted dying in other countries) and the issue raised strongly in this thread - the current law forces people to end their lives sooner than they would otherwise.

Sorry, rewording my post: it’s unfair and inequitable that those who can afford it can benefit from assisted dying opportunities by travelling abroad. I don’t think it’s wrong that they do so.

The survey was simple to do, hope lots complete it.
I think assisted dying will be done here it’s just a matter of time.Many suffering right now don’t have that time tho.

I see no reason for this thread to be pulled, and I really hope it isn’t

I re-read your post Volver and I get what you’re saying now. Yes, it does sound so simple, but is it? That’s what got me wondering - how and what do people know and can they be certain?

Siope wrote:

" it’s unfair and inequitable that those who can afford it can benefit from assisted dying opportunities by travelling abroad. I don’t think it’s wrong that they do so."

Rich people, and maybe doctors and vets too, have been able to get euthanased if they so desire. King George V is alleged to have been put to sleep to end his pain.
A retired geriatrician I knew was compassionate, however he said the downside of medically assisted dying is that the geriatrician would not be entirely free to end a life when appropriate.

I knew an elderly lady who had been a VAD nurse during WWI, in a civilian hospital in the west of Scotland. Sometimes an elderly tramp would be a patient, in a very bad way, terminally ill. The ward sister told the junior VAD nurse there was nothing anyone could do to help the man, so draw the screens and keep out .Then doctor and sister went behind the screens and when they came out the old man was dead.

F* me.

What an admission.

There have been many stories of compassionate doctors, especially in the days when we a far less litigious society.

I am quite certain I have seen compassionate doctors "helping people along" in care homes.

Indeed Volver, I was surprised. The old lady in question was very respectable, from an old family, and was forthright in her talk , and we two had just been attending a university seminar on Death.
Her story shows that many years ago doctors took on more personal responsibility for hard decisions, and were trusted to do so.

Siope

Since this thread will now almost certainly get pulled, just a quick reminder that today is the last day to participate in the consultation.

There is absolutely no reason for this thread to be pulled. but it cannot contain actual advice on pills or process.

No Volver, there is nothing at all to be smug about. None. And no-one is or has been. People can prepare, best they can, for most eventualities. They can join Dignity in Dying, or indeed Exit in Switzerland, and become members. They can make enquiries about Dignitas, or Life-Circle. And know how they work.

There is absolutely nothing smug, or easy, or simple about it. But it can be done, for those who wish to.

For me, and many I know, there is a limit beyond which I do not want to live, or rather not really live- and I will take the necessary action. And no-one should have to travel to another country to do so.

volver

F* me.

What an admission.

Yes, true compassion.

Fleurpepper 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

In the past it was done with compassion for the patient.Now there are whistle blowers everywhere it will hardly be done at all.

It’s very difficult to confront your mortality as you age. Quite apart from my horror at the thought of anyone washing, dressing, toileting and feeding me, I wish to spare my small family from seeing me in that state because that will be their last and abiding memory of me. Over twenty years later my overriding memories of my parents are of their suffering in their final days. In case I am rendered suddenly unable to take matters into my own hands I keep my Swedish death cleaning up to date. It’s a comfort to be able to spare as much suffering and inconvenience as possible. My intentions if I am capable are known to my loved ones and I would hope to be granted time to help them understand. But nothing is guaranteed.

No, not compassion.

God complex.

Did anybody ask "the tramp" what he wanted?

I'll just say this again. I fully support the concept of assisted dying. But that's not what I was calling "smug", was it?

We so often agree Volver- but in this case we certainly do not.

The tramp was beyond making any decisions, all he had ahead of him was suffering and more suffering. Compassion.

In other cases in the old days, before Shipman, doctors acted by request from patients, begging them not to let them linger and suffer in the end- and a 'pact' was made. Doctors would increase the dose of morphine, knowing that it would hasten the inevitable and avoid pain. Compassion.

Oh dear. No point in my contributing further to this thread.

And here I agree with you GSM. My way of thinking too.

I just find it untenable that any doctor or nurse could think that anyone - even "a tramp" - is in such a situation that they can decide on their behalf that they should be dead. Maybe it was particularly the description of a "tramp" that gets me. That implies that the person was of not much use to society so the doctor could decide.

What if the original post had said "Sometimes an elderly Member of Parliament would be a patient." Or an "elderly librarian".

Germanshepherdsmum

Oh dear. No point in my contributing further to this thread.

Why are you saying that GSM you make a valuable contribution to this thread? 🥺

In the past a doctor would have done the same for anyone with any occupation when they reached a certain point.

I will return simply to say that I didn’t consider the fact that he was a tramp was remotely relevant. He was a man who was suffering, beyond medical help and presumably alone in this world. As he was a tramp should he not have been entitled to compassion? It’s not a matter of deciding on someone’s behalf that they should be dead, but knowing that nothing but death will take away their suffering and that you alone have the means to end that suffering. Would you not do that for a beloved pet, as I have done several times when no further treatment is possible?

Thanks shinamae but I find volver’s attitude very upsetting.