No medical treatment after 75?

Veejay, i thought with regular blood-letting, that condition could be managed without problems ?

Witzend

I’ve also heard of an over 90, with fairly advanced dementia, being given a pacemaker at the family’s request - even though they’d been told by medics that without it, she’d probably drift off quite peacefully in her sleep.

To me, having seen far too much of it, any ‘striving to keep alive’ anyone with dementia beyond the earlier stages, is abuse, and verging on cruelty.

Who on earth wants to end up doubly incontinent, no clue about anything, unable to hold any sort of conversation, not knowing any of their family?
Surely a fate far worse than death.

Having seen my mother like that in the final stages of dementia, I agree with your last statement. I would not want my family to see me like that. I always said that in those final weeks - or rather months - she was no longer actually living, merely existing. You would not let a much loved pet go on like that.

Allsorts

Wouldn’t refuse antibiotics, but chemotherapy and invasive treatments yes, life gets harder as you age unless you have a partner to help, so will go when nature says I should. It’s quality of life that matters and I dont want to be a burden on my family. After a time even the most devoted children find themselves tired and pulled both ways when they’ve a family of their own, it’s not fair on them.

I followed a debate on Covid and the elderly, and all the ethical questions related to it, and other kinds of pulmonary disease. One Consultant said the modern world was very cruel to the elderly, as automatic treatment with anti-biotics 'stole' the opportunity for those with no quality of life of a quick and relatively easy death

His reasoning is that any extension of life achieved is likely to be of poor quality

Has he met any over 75 year olds recently? Most of them may have minor medical problems but certainly not enough to stop them enjoying life very much.

We are coming up for 80 and are enjoying life as much as we always did. DH has slowed down a bit because he has had a heart attack and bypass surgery., but he is still working, still doing DIY, (but no heavy lifting). still driving. I am still in good health, medication limited to low doses of statins and blood pressure pills, and most of our friends are similar. Yes there are a few who have died already and one or two whose health does limit their life, but not for the majority.

If this man gets to 75, hail in wind and limb, which is highly probable, I wonder if he will turn down a short course of antibiotics, for some minor medical problem, I doubt it.

Wouldn’t refuse antibiotics, but chemotherapy and invasive treatments yes, life gets harder as you age unless you have a partner to help, so will go when nature says I should. It’s quality of life that matters and I dont want to be a burden on my family. After a time even the most devoted children find themselves tired and pulled both ways when they’ve a family of their own, it’s not fair on them.

He is free to choose whatever for himself but not for his patients.
If I get dementia I won’t want resuscitation if I have some other problem. My children know my views.

As he is an American doctor, I would have thought a lot of his income comes from fleecing looking after the elderly. What a strange thing to say. Where did you read it pen50? I'm not sure someone isn't being conned by this.

My DD is a senior oncology nurse and she has seen patients with advanced terminal cancer put through painful treatment which may have given them a few extra but harrowing weeks.

Maybe it is as you say SueDonim and relatives are putting pressure on medical staff.

Yes, that is the case. Sometimes people with so little quality of life, and even who don't know who they are, or their relatives, who are threatening to sue medical staff.

AGAA that’s not always the case at all. My medic dd has worked a lot on medicine for the elderly wards and it’s quite often the family who is demanding that their family member is kept alive. It is ultimately the doctor’s professional decision as to whether the patient continues to receive treatment but faced with relatives who are determined and may even be threatening towards staff, it’s a very hard thing to do.

lixy

My 88 year old mum is about to fill in a Respect form as she is starting to need carers coming in. It replaces the 'do not resus' form and is much more comprehensive, It has to be done with her doctor. It will make her wishes very clear.

As said above - it's a personal and 'case-by-case' matter, not a blanket one.

But it should be led by patient, not family (as per the pace maker example above).

75 is too young for that. I'm 85 and would now refuse treatment for cancer in particular. I'm still active and in good health apart from an arthritic spine. Everyone is different but 75 isn't really old these days.

It's up to him if he refuses treatment after 75 but I know many people older than this who are leading active lives after having treatment for various conditions.
I know doctors do all they can to prolong life but in some cases it leads to more and longer suffering for the patient.

My 88 year old mum is about to fill in a Respect form as she is starting to need carers coming in. It replaces the 'do not resus' form and is much more comprehensive, It has to be done with her doctor. It will make her wishes very clear.

As said above - it's a personal and 'case-by-case' matter, not a blanket one.

I am 85 and I don’t think I would have invasive cancer treatment but I really don’t know.
I would certainly have antibiotics if prescribed and I had a very successful THR at the age of 83 and a TKR at 80 which both gave me a new lease of life and took away miserable pain and extremely reduced mobility.
I also think he will change his mind if the situation arises.

Sorry NOT nearly 90,should say 80

I have Haemochromstosis. Which is too much iron (.ferritin )
It can cause cirrhosis and other problems with other organs
I was told it I needed a lover transplant after she 70 I wouldn't get.one.
Luckily I don't have any other problems except joint pains and I'm nearly 90 so I guess I'm lucky.
On the other hand I have twin sons who both suffer a lot with it,one of them already had mild cirrhosis.
The only treatment is blood letting every few weeks

People are different, in my job I know of a woman in her 70s doing a full time job in a senior role, driving over an hour each day. I also know a 47 year old riddled with the pain of arthritis.

I am the same age as that Doctor and I think he is dangerous and ageist, and full of his judgemental self importance.

Witzend I think that is the opposite of loving & caring, the family not having the ability to let her go gently and with dignity.

Agree with you Witzend.

A blanket '75' is nonsense though. Post 85 perhaps, but on case by case basis.

I’ve also heard of an over 90, with fairly advanced dementia, being given a pacemaker at the family’s request - even though they’d been told by medics that without it, she’d probably drift off quite peacefully in her sleep.

To me, having seen far too much of it, any ‘striving to keep alive’ anyone with dementia beyond the earlier stages, is abuse, and verging on cruelty.

Who on earth wants to end up doubly incontinent, no clue about anything, unable to hold any sort of conversation, not knowing any of their family?
Surely a fate far worse than death.

We're in our sixties and can't get medical treatment now, let alone when we're 75. MrA has now been waiting for someone to check his hip for nearly a year - after 5 or 6 phone calls from a variety of people, two hospital consultations with people who keep referring him (presumably to someone who doesn't exist) for further investigation and an X-ray that showed that he should be referred as a matter of urgency. If they keep this up he'll be 75 when they finally tell him there's nothing they can do.

‘Best for his family’? Do they not like him?

He’d better hope he doesn’t get appendicitis or break a leg!

I bet that he will change his mind.
Even antibiotics? That’s silly