NHS collapsing....

ps
I believe the Tories are determined to destroy the NHS. God help us all if they succeed.

Too many managers, not enough hands on!

I know everybody thinks healthcare in the United States is awful, but my husband and I and, indeed, most of the people I know have had very good outcomes most of the time.

I'm sorry if my previous text was too long and not put in paragraphs. I was given some very helpful advice about using paragraphs which I forgot!!

Anyway, back to the remark about how awful it would be if you went to the American model, I just want to say that I hear far more desperate complaints on GN about your system than I ever do about the system here.

I'm 76, and my husband is 78. You can't trust him to sort anything with the doctor because he really never complains, so I usually go along if it's anything really important. I'm pretty good at sussing out who's treating me and what they're doing. It does take a lifetime of practice in taking care of other people and then yourself to figure out what's what.

Very good luck to you all. However, I will say I would much rather have our system than yours.

JANH

I qualified as a nurse in the early 1970’s when the pay was abysmal and when Ward Sisters and Matrons was the normal. I now have various medical conditions that require hospital admission and generally I refuse to be admitted because the standard of care that I see, is not what I would expect on the wards. When I have been admitted, when the condition is too serious, I rarely see a nurse following the morning schedule, ie washing and bed making. When I am able to get to the bathroom, I see nurses standing around talking, avoiding call buttons. During my last incarceration I witnessed an elderly lady, who was due for discharge to a Nursing Home, left in her chair with no attention, the ambulance personnel refusing to move her as she had wet herself. There was no lack of staff, just pure avoidance. Another time a lady left on a bedpan, who was in pain - I had to help her off the bedpan, again the call button was ignored.
A lot of the money going to hospitals is spent on administrative staff and this is where changes must be made to allow more to be spend on actual nursing staff.
When I can’t refuse hospital treatment, I always point out things to the staff where improvements can and should be made.

It’s scary isn’t it? Have seen similar when visiting a sick old lady neighbour in hospital.
The nursing staff are not all angels!

Why do people think the Government want to run down the NHS? What proof does anyone have of this? Also why shouldn't they pay for private healthcare if they can afford it? When Cherie Blair had her last baby she had it in her local NHS hospital where the entire floor had to be closed and filled with security. There is a huge shortage of staff and it this was alleviated it would help as many staff are finding the working conditions worse than the pay - but it takes time to train people. The biggest shortage is with carers to cut down on the bed blocking. At my local hospital the other morning there were 70 patients ready to be discharged but not able to leave because there was no package of care in place and by evening they had only managed to discharge one patient!

albertina

ps
I believe the Tories are determined to destroy the NHS. God help us all if they succeed.

I believe the NHS is destroying itself. It has too many administrators at the expense of efficiency and properly managed front line staff. We have seen examples here from people who know how things have changed and those things have nothing to do with the government. I wrote before about theft and waste as witnessed by my ex mother in law who worked for the NHS for decades and my post was pooh-poohed as being anecdotal. How many more times do we have to hear the same story from people in a position to know what actually happens? Dressings, drugs, loo rolls are all stolen. My experience of working in the public sector is that there is huge wastage because ‘it doesn’t belong to the boss/company’. The private sector is very different. I know of one firm that didn’t give you another biro unless you produced the old, expired one - a tiny thing but consider the size of the NHS …. And yes, I remember the stolen kidney machine all those years ago.

The government gave the NHS an extra £8 billion post Covid.

My experience of the NHS in the last couple of years has been mixed. Having suffered two health scares and two stays in hospital one NHS, one private (NHS funded), I’d say the medical care by doctors is the same. However, it is almost impossible to see a doctor in a reasonable time in the NHS and the admin and some of the nursing care is not up to the same standard as the private healthcare side.

My, poor, dearest daughter had a baby a couple of months back and, despite being in a hospital with new wards and plenty of money thrown at it, she almost died her care was so abysmal at times.

I think the main problem is that the NHS is overwhelmed with the problems of a burgeoning population and with catching up after Covid. Neither of these difficulties is the direct responsibility of the government.

I’m sorry you had this horrible experience but I really Dont think this is the norm in spite of the difficulties the nhs is experiencing. This really is a problem that could be solved by our inadequate govt. more money for salaries and more money to recruit staff. As a retired nurse/midwife of more than 40 years in practice it breaks my heart.

Oreo - because if they can get a pay rise (& the current offer to nurses isn’t ‘big’ ) then just maybe it will stop them leaving the profession so we might get a fully staffed NHS. So many drs are going abroad eg Australia, after training with their £100k+ training debts with the chance of paying it off while they have a decent standard of living. It also gives the lucky Australians a better Health service by paying decent wages.

For many years the government has not done effective workforce planning - and has trained too few doctors, to save on the cost of training them. And now the NHS is forced to call on agencies and pay far expensive doctors when they have gaps to fill.. The government also stopped nurses getting their fees paid while they trained - and lo and behold! We have too few nurses. Over the last 10 years or more, cuts have been made which have led to the dangerous state the NHS is in now. Governments need to take a long view if public services are to do the job they have been set up for.

The NHS has never been properly staffed as we have never trained enough doctors and nurses. Instead we have relied on importing trained staff from other, often poorer, countries to fill the gaps. This in my view is a national disgrace. But it isn't only the government that is reluctant to train more doctors, the GMC also wants a cap on training places to maintain the status, and pay, of existing doctors

Luckygirl 13 i am well aware of how scary and worrying AF can be. It causes discomfort, fear and worry. In the end i saw a good cardiologist who sorted me out and then i would see him about once a year. I think the failure of GPs means that they do not have sufficient connection with appropriate hospital
Consultants. I dont have private health insurance because it was such a high price but it is worth spending for an appt with a good cardiologist. It should not be the case but needs must. As i am not in UK at present in order to get up to date
treatment i will have to take a short flight to Martinique, a French island nearby. Heart disease can be very debilitating and i wish you all the best.

I am a Retired Nurse and was also a Midwife.Nursed for 40years.I have always dreaded needing inpatient care,with all the horror stories I read.

6 weeks ago I had a GI bleed and was admitted to my local hospital as an Emergency.The care I received was nothing short of outstanding from A and E to the Emergency admissions Ward and finally a Gastro Intestinal Ward.

All the staff,doctors,nurses,porters,cleaners were so caring,nothing was to much trouble for them.Several ladies on my ward needed a lot of personal care,I watched the Nurses looking after them with so much love.This Hospital does have a good reputation,I have never heard a bad word about it.

Our NHS get a lot of abuse nowadays,I wouldn’t like to still be working in it.I have to return soon for more investigations,I am almost looking forward to it!

I am a retired nurse, trained in the 1960s. I agree with all on this thread who have also been health care workers.
Myself, my late DH and other family members and friends have all suffered under the present system.
What on earth has happed to it?
At the moment I have a close friend who is suffering badly from two conditions which require surgery. She just keeps getting fobbed off by various out patient appointments.At one time she would have been sorted quickly, a previously very independent person who now is struggling to get out and about and relying on friends and family members to help with shopping and housework etc.

I’ve no problem with our A&E locally…although haven’t had to use it since 2019. But trying to get a doctor app is nigh impossible.I need a specific procedure done every 6 months…I started six weeks before it was due trying to get app. Impossible!! Do I had to tell a lie to get the app…. something I haven’t done in all my life. But I was worried and needed the procedure done.
But what an awful thing to have to do for peace of mind!

My recent experiences (one I recounted on GN where my daughter had an infected finger and the saga to get it treated left us in despair) and then a family member who suffered from a psychosis, absolutely terrifying experience. 30 hours in A&E with four of us trying to keep him restrained, no meds as certain procedures had to take place whilst unmedicated. I was told by one horrible nurse that only one other person was allowed in cubicles, I expect you can imagine my response. It was four days before he was admitted to a suitable unit and by then he was almost back to normal. It appears two meds he was given for severe back disease combine sometimes to cause psychosis and that was what happened. A brain scan was taken in one hospital A&E (we went to two different hospital, long story) and the second hospital was unable to access the scan and would not accept the results, because they have no way to transmit records between trusts. I could say so much more, but that’s enough.

My sister is a specialist nurse practitioner and has not alot of sympathy for junior doctors it's the nurses that do the bulk of the work in the nhs

Nanatoone
I had the same situation Re information being shared.
I’d had 2 ECGs done at the surgery.
Sent to hospital straight away.
Into Drs room where I was hooked up again 🤷‍♀️
I told them I’d had 2 ECGs less than 3 hrs ago.
He said but we don’t have the technology to access them
You couldn’t make it up in the 21st century in the uk, could you.

DaisyL

Why do people think the Government want to run down the NHS? What proof does anyone have of this? Also why shouldn't they pay for private healthcare if they can afford it? When Cherie Blair had her last baby she had it in her local NHS hospital where the entire floor had to be closed and filled with security. There is a huge shortage of staff and it this was alleviated it would help as many staff are finding the working conditions worse than the pay - but it takes time to train people. The biggest shortage is with carers to cut down on the bed blocking. At my local hospital the other morning there were 70 patients ready to be discharged but not able to leave because there was no package of care in place and by evening they had only managed to discharge one patient!

Well ‘some posters’ believe the evidence from 12 years of conservative govt during which all our public services have been decimated.
‘Bed blocking’ has been a major concern for over 40 years to my certain knowledge and no doubt much longer. Mr Johnson told us he had an oven ready plan for social care but of course nothing happened.
Local authorities and health agencies have been attempting to resolve the problem. Social care was moved out of l.a control to profit making agencies. We need it to be not for profit and a co-ordinated plan proposed.

Oreo

Nurses were never well paid in the past, they weren’t in it for the money.Actually they are quite well paid now tho.
Same goes for junior doctors, they had prestige and knew how well paid they would be soon.
We all need to pay more NI there’s no way round that if we want better services all round.Other European countries pay more in taxes than we do, this government won’t put up taxes and prob Labour won’t either.It’s unpopular but needs doing.
I needed a small op about 16 years ago and had to fund that myself too or face a very long wait.

Isn’t a tax burden if 48% big enough for you?

Shocking ‘care ‘ recently for my 97 yr old mother. She suffers from dementia and had had a fall. A&E Dr was going to discharge her with no X-ray even tho she was in great pain and couldn’t stand as she was ‘ok to go’ . I had to insist she was looked at more carefully- fractured pelvis. We had to help her to use the toilet as the nurse said no one was available to help . Eventually she was admitted for 3 days - moved to different wards 4 times in this period. I’m well aware that her poor memory is frustrating but most staff seemed to think that raising their voice would solve this problem! When discharged the Dr said “ lucky she didn’t break anything “ when I pointed out she had she said “Oh” and took the care plan back to amend it . Horrific experience all round

My word Nanna58 😧

My mother has dementia too, Nanna58, and suffers from Anosognosia which means she is in complete denial of her lack of abilities. Despite alerting the hospital to that, the discharge team allowed her to tell them she could do everything for herself despite the fact that she was almost completely immobile. They were most surprised when I refused to take her home and threatened them with legal action if they put her in hospital transport and dropped her at the door like they had the time before. There is something definitely amiss with the system.

Anyone in hospital who has dementia really needs someone, family or friends, to be around to act as advocate.
I had some dreadful hospital experiences with mum and in the end had to put in writing that she was not to be taken there from her care home unless she had fallen and broken a bone.

Anyone in hospital who has dementia really needs someone, family or friends, to be around to act as advocate.
They wouldn't let us. They insisted that they were able to tell whether my mother had capacity to make her own decisions despite her own social worker agreeing she didn't and me having her POA. So instead of doing their assessment once, they had to do it again and keep her in hospital an extra couple of days. They system is flawed.