Record Numbers Not Working Due To Ill Health

Agreed halfpint. I was self employed for many years too - medication and grinning and bearing it was the only way. I have never been tougher on anyone than I am on myself.

halfpint1

I am self employed and have been for many years, being too sick to work is never an option.

Indeed. Never been an option for us.

It is not only sick people not economically active.

Ive just seen an interesting thread on mumsnet where some very high earners were pointing out that (taken with the cost of childcare) they were at 100k+ working for nothing after tax. So the answer in some cases was (apart from putting more into a pension) to drop down to 3 or 4 days a week to being their salary under 100K. Or even to take career breaks. This is a similar scenario which deters some economically over 50s from returning to work. They will get hammered on PAYE and have decided that living more frugally and having the free time is preferable to working for the tax man. Yay!

In effect there are numbers of talented people working less hours by choice because the tax burden makes it untenable. This is a loss to the British economy and is not going to be addressed without radical reform of the entire corrupt tax system.

halfpint1

I am self employed and have been for many years, being too sick to work is never an option.

I think that is a tad exaggerated.

I can think of lots

Covid
Real flu
Gastric enteritis
Mental breakdown
Lots more

So - your comment is exaggerated. What I suspect you meant was that you may work when others may go sick.

I will be 70 in a few days but haven’t been able to work since I was 58 due to a very painful spine due to what I believe was the dangerous patient moving and handling practices in my job as a nurse . All my major joints give me agony and I take strong medication every day . I’d love to be able to go for a country walk but that will never happen now. I have a lovely family who will do anything for me so I should count my blessings .

Covid - after I retired.
Real flu once in my 20s, flu jab every year.
Gastroenteritis - one day at home with phone.
Mental breakdown - yes, medication for depression and anxiety still taken to this day, no time off. How I carried on I don’t know but I had no choice.

Perhaps now you understand that if you’re self employed you still work because you have to. You know what I did for a living - keeping my valuable client base was crucial.

I cannot believe the. Umber of people on here who believe that back pain cannot be proved or disproved! Of course it can! There are CAT scans, X-Rays and MRI scans to name but 3 investigations that can pinpoint problems. So many of you blaming people who are in pain for being in pain. How awful.

Germanshepherdsmum

Covid - after I retired.
Real flu once in my 20s, flu jab every year.
Gastroenteritis - one day at home with phone.
Mental breakdown - yes, medication for depression and anxiety still taken to this day, no time off. How I carried on I don’t know but I had no choice.

Perhaps now you understand that if you’re self employed you still work because you have to. You know what I did for a living - keeping my valuable client base was crucial.

Don’t you budget for times like that?

My point being that there is absolutely no way that anyone can work with a bad dose of the stuff that I had listed. Any total mental breakdown, would definitely mean not working. I for example didn’t know who I was or had any memory for a couple of weeks.

The fact that you appeared to have good health throughout your working life.

So please don’t belittle those who are too ill to work - or judge them.

Lot of assumptions and prejudice on here, it strikes me. Playing the system? Is there one to 'play' any more, and has anyone tried living on benefit? Long Covid is very real and those with it receive little help because the condition is poorly understood. Our health has gone 'weird' because of the pandemic, Covid and - in my view - the much promoted vaccination. Me? I'm 72, work pretty much full time and enjoy great health and energy, thank the Goddess. I have a friend with long covid (not on benefit, I must stress) and her life has just dwindled. I must say that those of us who are fortunate enough to be able to work and enjoy a good lifestyle should hesitate to judge those less fortunate until we have 'walked a mile in their moccasins.'

You are talking about illnesses which are short term, that’s not the group of people covered by the original post, it’s a different set of statistics. If you have cancer, a serious accident or illness and are hospitalised you can’t work. Mental health is a separate category, suffering from depression or anxiety makes work very difficult for some people - but if you have an active psychosis you can’t work. It’s not a competition.

halfpint1 it is an option if you’re severely ill or have broken limbs as a friend of mine had, she broke both of her arms, couldn’t work.
I have a number of self employed friends, it’s tough, fortunately most have provision, either insurance or savings to cover an amount of absence.

Another comment - very left wing I'm sure but there is an obscene amount of money sloshing around in the accounts of the top few percent of society. There should be some way, in our country, to ensure that everyone has enough to eat, to stay warm and dry, to be educated and have their health cared for, and so what if a few get away with more than they are supposed to? It's better than many going hungry. We are supposed to be a 'Christian' country but so many people do not seem to have read the Sermon on the Mount.

Casdon

You are talking about illnesses which are short term, that’s not the group of people covered by the original post, it’s a different set of statistics. If you have cancer, a serious accident or illness and are hospitalised you can’t work. Mental health is a separate category, suffering from depression or anxiety makes work very difficult for some people - but if you have an active psychosis you can’t work. It’s not a competition.

Oh sorry I got a bit side-tracked

When you’re working to deadlines on big deals you don’t budget for being ill wwm. I have always been keenly aware of my responsibilities and done my utmost to honour them.

I have never had what you might call good health - I’ve had asthma since babyhood and epilepsy since my teens, osteoarthritis since 21. Add the depression and anxiety (and I’m not exaggerating the day the wheels totally came off, when thankfully I was at home and my doctor saw me immediately). I have depended on medication since I was a baby so I remember nothing else. I’m grateful for the advances that have been made, but my entire life has been a matter of carrying on. But others have worse problems. I don’t belittle or judge those who are genuinely too ill to work.

biglouis

It is not only sick people not economically active.

Ive just seen an interesting thread on mumsnet where some very high earners were pointing out that (taken with the cost of childcare) they were at 100k+ working for nothing after tax. So the answer in some cases was (apart from putting more into a pension) to drop down to 3 or 4 days a week to being their salary under 100K. Or even to take career breaks. This is a similar scenario which deters some economically over 50s from returning to work. They will get hammered on PAYE and have decided that living more frugally and having the free time is preferable to working for the tax man. Yay!

In effect there are numbers of talented people working less hours by choice because the tax burden makes it untenable. This is a loss to the British economy and is not going to be addressed without radical reform of the entire corrupt tax system.

How do they work that out?

They might be taxed at a high rate on the excess, but they won't be working for nothing.

Even at the highest rate of tax, working pays.

I took time off work when I had a heart attack and a cancer op followed by radiotherapy. Shame on me!

Germanshepherdsmum

Even at the highest rate of tax, working pays.

Exactly!

People might consider that the extra isn't worth it for work/life balance, but it will pay - at the high levels (not always when people are on minimum wage and need childcare).

Some of the comments here make me very sad. If you have your health be grateful and don’t judge those who are too ill, whether mentally or physically, to hold down a job.
Living on benefits does not give you the ability to “ live the life of Riley”.

There are tens of thousands of frontline workers like doctors, nurses, teachers, pilots, much too ill to work after repeated infection with covid. The virus attacks vital organs, the heart, kidneys, brain, lungs and causes damage. It is a vascular disease and any virus that can kill 222,000 in UK in three years must tell us it also leaves very sick patients who won't ever be able to work again. We still see the equivalent of two jumbo jets a week killed with covid, including babies & small children. There are sudden deaths of young people weeks/months after a covid infection, after it has damaged their hearts. This is the reality of 2023, it is frightening. Thousands still have to shield completely as a third of infected people do not show symptoms, they can kill if they spread it to vulnerable elderly or babies.

Unless the govt takes it seriously and brings back mitigations we are going to lose many more professionals to Long Covid. This is obviously the elephant in the room currently tanking our economy. Too many top people too ill to work. We can't turn back the clock to 2019, the virus is more infectious now than in 2020 and everyone can't have a vaccination this year.

It is grim, until we learn to live with mitigations.
We all know someone close to us who died of covid, or because of it.

A bad back can be monitored by MRI and many test. Hopefully everybody who is saying they have a bad back has these test as proof, surely?

Dorset

A bad back can be monitored by MRI and many test. Hopefully everybody who is saying they have a bad back has these test as proof, surely?

I dont doubt the individual examples that people have brought up of "skivers". In any system there will be a few who seek to use it.

what distresses me is that these examples are then taken to mean fraud on a massive scale, when so many are in terrible distress and there is no "life of riley".

A few examples proves nothing - except human nature is at work.

We always laugh about the time we had to take a neighbour to the disability assessment office (or whatever it’s called) as he couldn’t drive. He has special needs. We went down a one way street and parked in a small multi storey nearby. I accompanied him down and went in with him but it was so busy I was not allowed to stay.

I waited outside watching people coming and going. I noticed a youngish chap going in who was dragging his leg and limping badly. After over 2 hours our neighbour came out and we walked into the multi storey and the “limping man” actually overtook us on the stairs, taking them two at a time with no sign of a limp! 🤣

Germanshepherdsmum

Covid - after I retired.
Real flu once in my 20s, flu jab every year.
Gastroenteritis - one day at home with phone.
Mental breakdown - yes, medication for depression and anxiety still taken to this day, no time off. How I carried on I don’t know but I had no choice.

Perhaps now you understand that if you’re self employed you still work because you have to. You know what I did for a living - keeping my valuable client base was crucial.

You sound just like my OH!! I pull his leg and tell him he’s like the old dolls on French and Saunders who say it’s “all stuff and b****y nonsense”. They carried on whatever and one even chopped her arm off on the kitchen table because she hurt her hand!! 🤣🤣🤣

I just feel that those on here stating because they are self employed they simply have never been able to go off sick are very strong mentally and generally enjoy good health with occasional blips - seriously if you had a serious car accident, a stroke, a heart attack, cancer and some other long term conditions like MS to simply would not be able to work - however much to needed to nor wan to let down clients - is not a sin to be seriously unwell. Those of us in PAYE with paid sick leave are extremely fortunate, but there again most of us have choices as to our employment status and you just never know what’s around the corner - the healthiest and fittest of us with perfect work records can be suddenly struck down without warning - both my Dad and husband prides themselves on never taking a “sickie”, one died of terminal cancer and the other had a near fatal heart attack - both were previously fit and healthy people