Record Numbers Not Working Due To Ill Health

Aveline

I used to be involved in training assessors for specific benefits. They all seemed to be very pleasant and apparently well qualified individuals. However, not long after, they'd all left the job. I found this out as I'd phone on a client's behalf and ask to to speak to one or other of them. I don't know why they'd left. Burnt out? Better jobs elsewhere? Their replacements didn't have extra training.

I 'think' because as shown on a tv programme, when they put in an undercover reporter, and there were several 'whistle-blowers' too, they were eventually trained 'to deny the benefit', and I suspect those that were good, couldn't align that with their caring profession. That would be the one job that I probably could do, but only in the afternoons, and I would be good at it IF allowed to be - sadly I fear that they wouldn't like that!

paddyann54

Benefits assessors are paid more than the actual benefits would cost IF they were passed.Of course the benefits are denied and appealed and denied again in the hope people will just give up.
Benefits for chronic conditions where people will NEVER get better should be for life ,its a joke that sick people have the stress of wondering if they will lose benefits that keep them warm ,fed and able to maybe have some life.
The new Scottish PIP is proposing to do this (youwont agree with it Aveline) claims for chronic lifelong conditions like my daughters will be able to be dealt with by phone and should be ongoing without the humiliation of a panel of often people with NO medical knowledge questioning you as if you're as big a liar as BOJO....though he seems to get away with it time after time .
My daughter had to take a citizens advice employee with her to her last assessment ,she was so distressed by the aggressive manner of the questioning she was scared to go back alone .
She's no shrinking violet by any means but she has not just one ongoing condition but several which have a knockon effect on her mental health,The DWP should be sued for the treatment of the sick and vulnerable .My girl can get out on very odd occassions so she wants to keep her blue badge its not a lot to ask surely?

Yes it is criminal, all for the sake of £12k a year - and we need that again in order to have a life equal to that of a non-disabled person ....

I think I said before that I am 'lucky' in that I have so much wrong with me that they couldn't possibly deny me, and I do have an 'indefinite award' so that is possible even in England.

Doodledog

*Doodledog "You're right. The whole system needs an overhaul. But if anyone can come up with a way of making it fair to those who are ill as well as those working whether they like it or not, I'd like to hear their ideas." FEAR NOT! There are about to overhaul it! The new Disability White Paper that the Tories have drafted looks also to be taken over by Labour too - apparently we wanted just one assessment, which we will get, BUT that assessment will be done by 'trained Work Coaches' (no doubt trained to deny whish the Decision Makers do anyway) who will decide whether we are entitled to PIP and UC/ESA and NOT our doctors .... this is going to get far, far worse! As Pammiel says "It’s clear that the system needs to be overhauled because it’s not fit for purpose. But not at the expense of genuinely sick and disabled people who cannot work and need support. Unfortunately they are likely to be the very people who will suffer, because they’re an easy target." We certainly are!

It's not easy to tell whether you are agreeing with me or jumping to the conclusion that I am 'having a go' at claimants, but as I am being quoted in the bit of your post that lists unsupportive comments, I will point out, for the record, that I am not!

My point was that those who do have a go at claimants should remember that there are also people on full salary who regularly take six months or longer off work because the stress makes them unable to fulfil the requirements of the role, and this simply passes the stress on to colleagues who have to take on the work of the sick people as well as their own. IMO (although I haven't said this on the thread up to now) it is far more honest of those who resign and allow their role to be filled by someone who can cope with it than it is to stay on the books and let someone else do it.

When I said there should be an overhaul, I did not mean in a way that disadvantaged the sick even more, and I did say that on the thread.

This thread has become adversarial, with Some People determined to pick a fight, posting their virtue signalling platitudes to bump it when it flags. There is really no need. As I have said, I've been on the receiving end of comments from someone who wrongly assumed I was dishonestly taking a seat on a bus that was reserved 'for those who need it most', and I have also spent years covering for two colleagues who between them clocked up over three years of absence whilst on full pay. I did this in a stressful role as well as my own work, and it nearly killed me - it led directly to my early retirement. I am fully aware that not all disability is visible, and I am also aware that there are those who play the system.

There does need to be an overhaul of the sick pay system, but I am at a loss to know how it can be done in a way that is fair to all. The last thing I'd want is for the chancers to spoil things for those with long term conditions who are lucky enough to work for employers who still pay when they are sick.

And none of that has anything to do with those stuck in the dreadful PIP system, which is cruel and unnecessary. I hope that clears up my position, even for those determined not to understand posts that don't agree with their POV.

Sorry *Doodledog, I wasn't implying you weren't supportive, you have been, I think my brain is working faster than my keyboard skills on this thread!

Yes, they have some nasty plans to overhaul it, which will obviously be far worse than it is now, and seems Starmer is obsessed with people being in work too, so going to use it too probably ... so who the heck do we vote for now?

It's cruel and inhumane how we are treated as a group, through no fault of our own - I try and fight my own corner, but have been fighting for others who are even worse off than I am.

I am now having issues with a Disabled Facilities Grant, my LA wanting to give me what they want and not what I need, I have had enough of it now to be honest ... if it weren't for my elderly mum, I would have followed my daughter by now sadly. Anyone out there got any experience with fighting councils? If so please PM me!

IMO (although I haven't said this on the thread up to now) it is far more honest of those who resign and allow their role to be filled by someone who can cope with it than it is to stay on the books and let someone else do it.

Really? What are they supposed to live on? The rates of Statutory Sick Pay are awful. If their contract allows that, then that is what they are entitled to and they shouldn't feel under any pressure to resign.

VioletSky

Aveline

Sigh. There are no 'call out the scroungers' on this thread. Just people with experience of those few chancers who spoil the perception of the multitude of absolutely legitimate claimants. It's a more nuanced issue than some seem to see. However, feel free to look for an argument if it suits you.

You have the choice not to let "scroungers" alter your view of those claiming disabilities in general

That's a choice.

Yep, agree. People also have the choice to accept that if those they suspect of cheating are claiming disability benefits, then they have been assessed and provided medical evidence of their condition to the satisfaction of the DWP - who, as I have said before are not idiots. There is a perception that it’s easy as pie to claim these benefits and that fraud is rife. As has been repeated ad nauseam, neither is the case, so perhaps it’s time that people started to mind their own business and accept that if someone is using an accessible parking space or loo, or claiming various benefits, then they are perfectly entitled to do so. I find it really odd that ‘hashtag bekind and respect for various communities, seemingly applies to all the but the disabled community.

icanhandthemback

^IMO (although I haven't said this on the thread up to now) it is far more honest of those who resign and allow their role to be filled by someone who can cope with it than it is to stay on the books and let someone else do it. ^

Really? What are they supposed to live on? The rates of Statutory Sick Pay are awful. If their contract allows that, then that is what they are entitled to and they shouldn't feel under any pressure to resign.

Well given that we are talking about an ideal situation, there should be proper sick pay. But people like the ones I am talking about wouldn't be off sick if they weren't getting paid.

They both always (and both did this more than once) came back before the money dropped to half pay, timed it so that when they did come back they had leave to take and coincidentally this took them to the summer vacation period when there was less to do if you had been away all year and had no marking or records to keep. As I said upthread, they were both doing other things that showed that they were capable of work, such as high level study, being a magistrate, standing in elections and the like. Meanwhile, others were doing the job that they found too stressful on top of their own.

Yes they were 'entitled' to do this, but after three years of doing two jobs for the price of one it saw me off. Are they morally entitled to do that, in your opinion?

For what feels like the hundredth time of course the vast majority of claimants are not chancers. However, the tiny minority of those who play the system affect the perceptions of others. The media naturally blows it all up out of proportion. I wish there were no benefit cheats but there are and I can't wish them away by choosing to believe they don't exist.

Aveline

For what feels like the hundredth time of course the vast majority of claimants are not chancers. However, the tiny minority of those who play the system affect the perceptions of others. The media naturally blows it all up out of proportion. I wish there were no benefit cheats but there are and I can't wish them away by choosing to believe they don't exist.

No they don't

Otherwise I'd be agreeing with you

I don't because you are wrong

Are they morally entitled to do that, in your opinion? If the company allowed them to do that, yes they were. The point is, the company were in the wrong for not ensuring you were doing the work for 2 and getting paid for one. That's immoral. Companies choose what terms they give for sickness so if they say they will pay full salary for 6 month, they should make arrangements to pay someone else to do that work when they have sick staff for any length of time. Most companies have systems in place to ensure that the conditions are not abused so HR can challenge any other work somebody does whilst off sick.

They should, yes. But mine didn't. And the colleagues knew that, took time off over and over, and left me to pick up the pieces. I wouldn't have minded so much if they had been ill, but they were all over Facebook talking about what they were doing instead of going to work.

I'm saying no more about it, as it's winding me up just thinking about it, but in the end it got too much for me, and I left. I could have done the same, I suppose, but I wouldn't do that to the poor sucker who would have had to mop up after me.

Aveline

For what feels like the hundredth time of course the vast majority of claimants are not chancers. However, the tiny minority of those who play the system affect the perceptions of others. The media naturally blows it all up out of proportion. I wish there were no benefit cheats but there are and I can't wish them away by choosing to believe they don't exist.

True. It’s naive to think they don’t exist.
It’s a shame that the ones who do claim fraudulently are the ones who hit the headlines and receive all the publicity. Perhaps there could be more publicity about the difficulties with getting benefits, so that people would appreciate what it takes, but I’m sure you can see a danger in doing that.
I’ve dealt with the ‘how far can you walk’ for an 80 year old with a double heart bypass and an amputation and yes, we did have to go through the whole rigmarole again as he got older, even though the allowance was granted the first time.
I’ve supported someone applying for support because of mental health problems - even information from a doctor isn’t enough, they still had to fill in forms and go to an interview.
I’ve noticed people watching me get out of my car when I’ve parked in a disabled space, to see if they can spot my disability and discussing it in audible tones.

Those whose fraudulent benefit claims receive media publicity do impact on those who don’t. It’s wrong, but it happens

Those whose fraudulent benefit claims receive media publicity do impact on those who don’t. It’s wrong, but it happens

There have been shocking cases of claimants found fit for work who have died soon afterwards, and other cases where very seriously ill people have had their benefits withdrawn because they were unable to attend an appointment. In a couple of instances, the DWP were advised in advance that an appointment could not be kept, but it cut no ice. One such was a young woman confined to a hospital bed, too ill to be discharged. Her benefits were stopped just the same.

But you'd have to dig around to find these stories - because they don't make the front pages of the tabloids which, instead, regularly feature reports on 'benefit cheats' who supposedly live the life of Riley, sport designer clothes and have 2 or 3 holidays abroad.

This doesn't just happen - it's a deliberately engineered by the right-wing media to create an 'anti' benefits anger amongst its readers, and keep the public divided against each other.

If the general public knew the full scale horror of some of these cases, the appallingly crass treatment that disabled and sick people suffer at the hands of the DWP - there would be uproar, and the government would be faced with an angry electorate. So what better way to prevent this than pointing the finger at the miniscule number of claimants who are cheating the system?

That's why people with 'invisible' conditions are verbally abused by the public - they've been convinced that benefit claimants are fraudsters.

It's evil.

It is truly evil

I used to be involved in training assessors for specific benefits. They all seemed to be very pleasant and apparently well qualified individuals. However, not long after, they'd all left the job. I found this out as I'd phone on a client's behalf and ask to to speak to one or other of them. I don't know why they'd left. Burnt out? Better jobs elsewhere? Their replacements didn't have extra training.

My late OH - a doctor - supplemented our income by undertaking benefits assessments. He himself had had to leave full time practice because of health problems, so we needed to top up our income. He hated every single moment of it. Sometimes he could see people were lying, but more often he could see that some of them were genuinely sick but the boxes he had to tick would not work for gaining them the benefits they desperately needed. He felt that what he was doing was a complete waste of time. The cards were stacked against them before they even walked in the door.

The fraudsters genuinely are in the minority - a very small minority - but until the crass media stop jumping on the bandwagon of fuelling hatred by overstating the extent of fraud then truly sick people in need will feel uncomfortable, guilty and hounded.

I would prefer that a tiny number of "scroungers" got away with it than that our society became so uncivilized as to allow those in genuine need to have to fight and fight to get help as they do now. And to feel guilty and beaten down by the system.

Any fraud is more than balanced out by those who are entitled to benefits who do not claim - though ignorance of their entitlement, embarrassment, inability to negotiate the labyrinthine forms - and who struggle on dealing not only with their condition but with poverty too.

The stigma from claiming can make people further ill. The system changes so quickly that staff have to google up todate information. How is a sick person supposed to navigate a system that is complex and is against the claimant. With the forms and assessments also hospital appointments it’s a full time job juggling all that. Our welfare system was looked upon with respect I doubt it is now.

God this thread is horrible

I would prefer that a tiny number of "scroungers" got away with it than that our society became so uncivilized as to allow those in genuine need to have to fight and fight to get help as they do now. And to feel guilty and beaten down by the system.

Any fraud is more than balanced out by those who are entitled to benefits who do not claim - though ignorance of their entitlement, embarrassment, inability to negotiate the labyrinthine forms - and who struggle on dealing not only with their condition but with poverty too.

This.

JaneJudge

God this thread is horrible

It certainly is.

This thread is awful but it highlights the reality of disability and the grind they live. The information posted shows the real struggle and daily lives of real people not sensational headlines. It’s been more mumsnet than grans net . Really brutal

Dickens

^Those whose fraudulent benefit claims receive media publicity do impact on those who don’t. It’s wrong, but it happens^

There have been shocking cases of claimants found fit for work who have died soon afterwards, and other cases where very seriously ill people have had their benefits withdrawn because they were unable to attend an appointment. In a couple of instances, the DWP were advised in advance that an appointment could not be kept, but it cut no ice. One such was a young woman confined to a hospital bed, too ill to be discharged. Her benefits were stopped just the same.

But you'd have to dig around to find these stories - because they don't make the front pages of the tabloids which, instead, regularly feature reports on 'benefit cheats' who supposedly live the life of Riley, sport designer clothes and have 2 or 3 holidays abroad.

This doesn't just happen - it's a deliberately engineered by the right-wing media to create an 'anti' benefits anger amongst its readers, and keep the public divided against each other.

If the general public knew the full scale horror of some of these cases, the appallingly crass treatment that disabled and sick people suffer at the hands of the DWP - there would be uproar, and the government would be faced with an angry electorate. So what better way to prevent this than pointing the finger at the miniscule number of claimants who are cheating the system?

That's why people with 'invisible' conditions are verbally abused by the public - they've been convinced that benefit claimants are fraudsters.

It's evil.

*Dickens - thank you for your support ... people have died! One man starved to death, and another didn't have money to top up his electric meter and couldn't store his insulin correctly, and they found nothing in his fridge when he committed suicide.

Just read an article about when the disabled are to get their £150, and what the Tories have said about it! My comment was ....

"this (£150) payment recognises the extra costs disabled people in particular often face, such as care and mobility needs", "helping ensure the most vulnerable in our society are protected from rising costs during this challenging period.”
£150! Scope's Disability Price Tag Report 2023 says that on 'average' a disabled person needs £975 a MONTH to live a life equal to a non-disabled person!
The most vulnerable didn't even get the £650 Cost Of Living Payment last year and will not be getting the £900 this year ... they haven't a clue, and just do not care at all ....

JaneJudge

God this thread is horrible

Indeed.

As *Luckygirl13 says ...

My late OH - a doctor - supplemented our income by undertaking benefits assessments. He himself had had to leave full time practice because of health problems, so we needed to top up our income. He hated every single moment of it. Sometimes he could see people were lying, but more often he could see that some of them were genuinely sick but the boxes he had to tick would not work for gaining them the benefits they desperately needed. He felt that what he was doing was a complete waste of time. The cards were stacked against them before they even walked in the door.

Exactly, the cards are stacked, the questions they ask are skewed and there are cameras watching you form the street, just in case you 'run up the path' .... in some cases the assessments are actually done on the 1st floor of a building - deliberately so that if you are in a wheelchair, and there was a fire, you have to be able to get down the stairs, so if you say you can (even if you go down on your bum) you've failed before you've even started! If you say you can't, they will send you to an assessment centre somewhere with a 90 min travel distance!