Are pharmacists sufficiently trained?

Daisymae

No, pharmacists are not sufficiently trained. They are trained but not in the specifics of general meds and don't have the same training as GPs. I went a few years ago with a rash on my hand and asked for advice. The pharmacist said shingles and that I should go to the GP immediately. I didn't as I didn't think that it was shingles and I was correct. It's all part of the downgrading of healthcare to manage demand.

It's all part of the downgrading of healthcare to manage demand.

Isn't that the truth!

Sticking-plasters to fix a broken leg...

Gundy, don't let paddyann54 think you are encompassing her in "English ladies", or there may be some real kick-a$$ing going on !
imo.

always good to hear from our cousins across the pond.

The gaps they plug will be done fully qualified, they do continuing education.

Hahahaa…
whitewavemark2 had a legit question and the question thread immediately turned into a “feisty” exchange (mostly by her) - on the first page.

Like, we don’t get it? Yes, most get it, but WWM2 ended up answering her own question (because no one was giving her the answer she wanted) - on the first page.

Five more pages of comments/exchanges… No need to read any further, don’t want to go there for fear of getting bitten in the a$$.

English ladies are the best! My morning entertainment. 😆
Cheers! (It’s a holiday here)
USA Gundy

Please go to your GP asap. If your toe is still red and swollen, it would indeed suggest an infection.

I remember hearing a GP diagnose shingles in a young person as infected bites.

No, pharmacists are not sufficiently trained. They are trained but not in the specifics of general meds and don't have the same training as GPs. I went a few years ago with a rash on my hand and asked for advice. The pharmacist said shingles and that I should go to the GP immediately. I didn't as I didn't think that it was shingles and I was correct. It's all part of the downgrading of healthcare to manage demand.

But, if the pharmacist had been properly trained she probably would not have given antibiotics.

I see exactly what you mean Whitewavemark2 and no, I would not trust a pharmacist to prescribe or diagnose anything for me. If I have a problem I want to see a fully trained doctor not someone trained in various medicines and their effects. The whole idea of going to a pharmacist in the future instead of a GP is just an excuse to get around the problem that we don't have enough full time GP's and the health service is in decline. I have a close relative who is a fully trained pharmacist and has the post grad quals but says herself that she is not capable of diagnosing patients except in very simple straightforward situations. They do not have the time to go into the patient's medical history or to fully understand these implications.

Yes, a good pharmacist is worth their weight in gold. Unfortunately, just like doctors, there are a small number of incompetent ones that give the rest a bad name if someone is unlucky enough to come across them and needs advice.

If you have a good pharmacist you’ve got it cracked! I have recently started treatment for AML, leukaemia. I have lots of tablets to take throughout the day. Some tablets are prescribed and provided by the hospital some tablets are on repeat prescription from my GP. My husband and I called into our chemist and spoke at length with the pharmacist. He was fantastic, he explained each tablet and what it did. The ones to take before eating and the ones to take with food. He spent a good half hour talking to us. He provides a fantastic service and in future would not hesitate to have a consultation and have a prescription from him.

Pharmacist regularly get 111 calls and do a minor ailment service, if it needs sign posting to another service they will do that on the information received .

In this situation (I know, I've been there) it can be really difficult to tell whether a blister's infected or not. I've had a doctor tell me categorically that there's no infection and ended up on IV antibiotics to sort the problem out.

There are new antibiotics being discovered www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/may/25/artificial-intelligence-antibiotic-deadly-superbug-hospital

and it looks as if some of the panic about antibiotic resistance may be unnecessary.

That service hasn’t been rolled out yet so the pharmacists haven’t been trained for antibiotics prescribing. She erred the side of caution as would a gp . I’m glad your foot healed . Pharmacist sign post conditions to relevant places and deal with much more than pill counting . The blood pressure checks are life savers . These people are an asset to our communitys

They can access your medical notes and read the updated information.

Pharmacist do continuing education modules, they are extremely knowledgeable. They run to strict guidelines. Being able to nip in and see them without an appointment is a great service. I hope ur foot is ok .

Pharmacists are experts in medications - they often know more than doctors about medications and how they can interact with each other, if I am prescribed something new by my doctor then I always double check with my excellent pharmacist that it does not contraindicate with anything else I am taking. My pharmacist is brilliant, as are the two locums he uses for his days off and holidays. They are definitely qualified to advise on minor ailments, and also know when to recommend you see your GP or go to A&E. I understand your concern about not wanting to take unnecessary antiobiotics, I feel that way myself. However, a worsening infection really does require them - I was prescribed some over the phone by the Nurse Practitioner at our GP surgery a few months ago, and they really were necessary as it was an abcess that had just burst. The deeper infection needs antibiotics to properly clear up. I do think both doctors and pharmacists are aware of the dangers of overprescribing antiobiotics currently, they do not offer them like smarties as used to be the case.

A few years ago, my eyes suddenly became bloodshot. I have a history of retinal tear. I went to the pharmacy because that’s what the government were advising people to do. I told the pharmacist my history and symptoms and she advised some over the counter eye drops. I used them but they did not help so I went back. She advised different eye drops. They did not work. I went back and she advised different eye drops again and again, they did not work. I went to the optician who, once he knew my history, told me to go straight to the GP so I did she then prescribed different eye drops. I went home and an hour later the GP phoned me and said on reflection I should go to A&E. I did. I saw the specialist nurse from eye casualty who spoke to the consultant over the phone and was prescribed more eye drops. They did not work and things escalated. I went to eye casualty again and this time saw the consultant face to face. I handed over all the eye drops I’d been given over the week and she was angry. She asked me if I was sure the pharmacist had advised these specific drops because they made the situation worse. So I am not confident that pharmacists are currently trained to diagnose and prescribe. They are trained to fulfil prescriptions for conditions that have been diagnosed by medical staff. Pharmacists are extremely knowledgeable about medications and doses and side effects and contraindications and that is what they are trained to do. This is just the government trying to reduce pressure on GPs and A&E. pharmacists will need additional training to be able to diagnose and prescribe. As I understand it the plan is that they will only be able to diagnose and prescribe for certain conditions only and those that are not complex. None medical prescribing is a post graduate course and those who complete it can only prescribe in their area of expertise.

Pharmacists are taught to prescribe for patients, it is a post graduate level advanced practitioner course, and they cannot prescribe unless they have completed training, passed, and undergone supervised practice which is done by a named GP mentor. They work within strict protocols, deal with minor conditions which lend themselves to a protocol approach, and have the facility to refer directly to a GP if they have any concerns about the condition presenting to them. Pharmacists are highly skilled professionals in their own right, and for their own professional integrity there is no way they would be doing things outside their level of competence.

Some of the comments on this thread are very inappropriate in light of the facts.

I absolutely trust pharmacists to advise on drug treatment and on potential side-effects and interactions. That is what they are there for and in my experience they are very good at it.

They are however not diagnosticians and should not be used as such.

My late OH (a doctor) was a brilliant diagnostician with an encyclopaedic memory - other GPs used to consult him when they were puzzled by a patient. That is where a doctor's skill lies.

We are being seriously short-changed under the current system where non-medics of all kinds are making diagnoses - and often over the phone.

I rang my surgery recently about an on-going problem and they said they did not have any appointments but could organise for someone to ring me back from some local private company who provide cover. When the call happened I could tell this person was not a doctor from her vague questioning, and I did ask her if she was a doctor - she said not - she was some sort of medical assistant. She prescribed something which I never collected from the surgery, having put down the phone and looked up the interactions with others I was on.

This is a serious slippery slope of which pharmacists are just one part.

This is not to denigrate pharmacists - most are excellent at what they do.

I had a red and sore eye; consulted pharmacist who said infection and wanted to sell me some drops at £20. Declined and consulted optician; no infection, dry eye syndrome which a £4.95 bottle of Optrex sorted

I feel strongly that prescribing medicine or any other form of treatment should be left sole to physicians.

Neither nurses nor pharmacists, however well-trained they may be, have been taught to prescribe for patients and unless their training in the future is to include this, they should not be expected to take on the task.

Medical history needs to be assessed. Are you diabetic ! Have you autoimmune disease ? This could lead to anti biotic being prescribed. Nothing and no one is straight forward. Generally pharmacists are very good !

I actually had bloods taken on my final trip to A&E and because of the reaction, the Dr decided that evidence of bacteria in my blood was very small, so would not therefore prescribe any further medicine.

So it seems blood tests are good, but I guess expensive, and unnecessary when you can use your common sense. Which I seemed to lack this time around😡

JdotJ

Whitewavemark2

Wish I hadn’t started the thread now. 😄

So do I, much like most of your threads whereby you goad into provoking a reaction.

I’ll bare that in mind 😄😄😄😄.