Did you watch Panorama last night?

May I ask what equipment is needed to make bread and oat milk?

I’m surprised you don’t know.
Bread is time and energy -short supply if you’re a teacher, and for many other parents too. Of course my grandmother mother, and mother used to do it all the time (not relevant to today).

Oat milk -I don’t know how you make it, and since I don’t, I used Google. It told me all about what to do and how to avoid sliminess, but since we drink milk, it’s not a problem for us.
Must be a problem for many though, looking at all the claims for which tastes best and looking at all the varieties in the supermarket, but then we’re back to UPF. .

Mollygo

Homemade bread is another thing like oat milk- easy if you have the time and the money for the equipment.
I didn’t say anything about UPF junk or crisps either, though I was interested to read on here, about what constitutes UPF in regard to bread.
I was just interested to hear that replacing parts of a meal with carbs was a good idea. Especially when a healthy eating plate already contains 33% starchy food.

May I ask what equipment is needed to make bread and oat milk?

Yes, I'm assuming people have an oven and a refrigerator. Poverty wasn't exactly the point of the UPF programme, was it?

Bread takes a bowl, a spoon, flour, water, salt, yeast, 1t sugar, and 1t oil, mix, raise - a baking sheet and 20-25 min in oven.

Jug, oats, water - fridge overnight, strain - no abnormal equipment.

Curtaintwitcher is right - most of the vegetarians/ vegan meals rate very highly on the UPF scale. It’s quite scary! Obviously veg are fine but most other things are manufactured with dreadful additives. If one is choosing foods for environmental reasons then obviously avocados and almonds cannot be eaten.
It is a dilemma.

My daughter went through a phase of refusing everything but pasta and cheese (boiled penne and grated cheddar). It was very frustrating as I was cooking proper meals, but it was more about control than food.

I took her to the doctor, who asked what she had for breakfast (cereal or toast), if she ate fruit (yes) and drank milk (yes), and declared that she had a balanced if boring diet and to leave her to it.

Homemade bread is another thing like oat milk- easy if you have the time and the money for the equipment.
I didn’t say anything about UPF junk or crisps either, though I was interested to read on here, about what constitutes UPF in regard to bread.
I was just interested to hear that replacing parts of a meal with carbs was a good idea. Especially when a healthy eating plate already contains 33% starchy food.

Mollygo

Must remember, when children won’t eat what’s on offer, I can bulk out the meal with toast.

Fantastic idea.

Decent bakery or homemade bread, is a good filler - they'll grow out of most picky behaviour given time and age.

Note, I said decent bread, not UPF junk or crisps.

Monica

Nothing to do with my widowed son not being able to cook! The boys love junk food ie chicken nuggets et al. Won’t eat cheese, drink milk and one won’t eat breakfast at any price unless it’s McDonalds. Nothing whatsoever to do with not sitting down with his children and discussing all sorts of things.

Maybe keep the discussion to food eh?

Also to those intimating that giving a child a meal and making them sit and eat it. I don’t recognise that. Didn’t happen to me and didn’t happen to my sons. What I didn’t do was buy multi packs of crisps and other rubbish. By the time meal time came round they were ready to eat. After they had had dinner/tea they’d have biscuits/cake etc but they weren’t allowed to be raiding the cupboards all day snacking. We weren’t poor so food was there but I like to see children eating decent food. Must have done something right as they used to get 100% attendance certificates because they were never ill.

I don't eat meat and this restricts my choices. Any alternative, apart from eggs, has to be processed. I eat a lot of mushrooms and baked beans, but there is a limit to what you can do with them.

Must remember, when children won’t eat what’s on offer, I can bulk out the meal with toast.

MrsNemo My comment was relating to faddy eating - not 'condemning' anyone to any kind of cheaper diet. My Grandma fed thirteen children on a healthy, completely home made diet, in spite of poverty. There were no fast foods around at that time, and there was no choice. My Father and his siblings ate whatever was offered - and she managed to produce a fit and healthy family who lived into their eighties and nineties

Indeed, as did Mum and Mil. We do the same, with toast or extra portionsof the liked bits as alternative, others choose differently. Apart from no healthy food available, it really doesn't matter what others decide to eat.

I think the Panorama show about UPF was likely a good thing for people to view and think about the quality of the food they eat - perhaps food related health and or weight issues.

I see chubby people everywhere, food is likely a partial culprit.

Mollygo

MrsNemo
simply stating that no choice given, except eat it or leave it, might result in less faddy eating patterns

In my personal experience it doesn’t, but everyone’s experience is different.

Precisely - that's why I said it might. As one who has had relentless struggles with one particular child about food, I can see both sides of this situation.

I rarely eat ready meals because I can't afford them. However, last year, when I had my cancer op I didn't know how I'd feel afterwards, so I went off to Waitrose and bought some ready meals, so all I'd have to do was pop them in the microwave. I chose the ones with the lowest carb content and I must say most of them were tasty.

I'd probably get bored with the limited choice, but if I were a singleton with a well-paid job, I can imagine relying on ready meals like that rather than the faff of cooking for myself after a day at work and commuting - and hardly any washing up!

MrsNemo
simply stating that no choice given, except eat it or leave it, might result in less faddy eating patterns

In my personal experience it doesn’t, but everyone’s experience is different.

My comment was relating to faddy eating - not 'condemning' anyone to any kind of cheaper diet. My Grandma fed thirteen children on a healthy, completely home made diet, in spite of poverty. There were no fast foods around at that time, and there was no choice. My Father and his siblings ate whatever was offered - and she managed to produce a fit and healthy family who lived into their eighties and nineties. Many Mothers have to work now - the temptation for a fast meal after a long day must be enormous, so I am not judging anyone, simply stating that no choice given, except eat it or leave it, might result in less faddy eating patterns.

M0anica
I am constantly amazed at peoples unwillingness to talk to each other, to talk through a problem like this of the widowed son and with a bit of knocking the problem around manage to find a solution to it.

Faced with claims of we ate what was put in front of us as did most of us around the generations posting on here,
and implied criticism I don’t understand people who cook different meals to suit their family members,
and I make everything from scratch because I have the right equipment.

What’s left to discuss?

If the discussion is about avoiding UPF it’s a good idea. Via the radio program and Panorama and the internet, I know a lot more about that than I did before.

I (actually it’s often DH) cook different meals for my DGC because I want them to enjoy their meals with us, without having to be bulked up with one food item because they don’t want the other. If they have friends round, I ask what they don’t eat, and don’t serve it for them.

If other people do different meals, well done for managing it. It’s just good organisation and it saves food waste.
If some families all eat the same thing, hopefully it’s because they like what they’re given.

. . . there was one meal provided at each sitting and no choice and I can’t recall anyone having food fads.
I was brought up like this, and remember being made to sit at the table until I ate something I hated. I'm not saying you did the same, but I think it is cruel. Things taste different to different people, and what you put in your mouth is very personal. That wasn't an uncommon approach for people of my mother's generation (she was a child in the war when food was scarce), and many of my generation vowed not to inflict it on our own children. With hindsight, I think I may have gone too far in indulging my two, as I often did cook three meals. My daughter in particular was quite faddy about food as a child. She doesn't have the healthiest relationship with it even now, and I tend to blame myself for that.

OTOH my son is a real 'foodie'. He cooks from scratch at home, and he and my DIL love going out to eat, and enjoy things like taster menus to try new foods, so maybe I'm doing the 'mum thing' of taking the blame for something that would have happened anyway. Children are individuals and have their own likes and dislikes.

If I had my time again with the benefit of hindsight (and wouldn't that be a blessing ) I would never force them to eat anything, but would give the choice of either the offered meal or something plain but nutritious. No eating the best bits and leaving the veg (or vice versa), and no tasty alternative. That may produce problems of its own of course - I really don't think that this is a 'one size fits all' situation.

Mollugo There is no connection between buying junk food and offering children no choice. A poor family may decide that as the kebab shop down the road offers the cheapest meal that is what they will buy.

Personally, I am not comfortable with this fetishising of poor families. There are many reasons why people may be in poverty and it can be short or long term and what they eat will be very varied depending on the causes of poverty, where they live and the facilities available to them and the availability of food banks, community fridges and free school meals. Too often better-off people feel a need to force hopelessness and helplessness on those with limited incomes, which is both unjust and patronising.

Let us, within the context of this discussion, talk about the vast majority of families, those 17 million stretching from those just above the poverty line to oligarch's families.

I am constantly amazed at peoples unwillingness to talk to each other, to talk through a problem like this of the widowed son and with a bit of knocking the problem around manage to find a solution to it.
In this case a possible solution is for him to sit down with his children and have a conversation with them, covering the loss of their mother, that he can never replace their mother that he cannot be as good and varied a cook and the problem he faces and get them to suggest ways round the problems, possibly they each agree to choose two meals a week and to eat each others choices, taking account real food loathings of their siblings with Dad making the choice on Sunday (eat out?). They could themselves get involved in the preparation of food. many a 10/11 year old is competent tomproduce a simple meal for the family now and again - and take great pride in doing so.

MrsNemo

A Health Visitor friend remarked that there are no food fads in poor homes. That has always seemed to be the nub of the situation - if there is one meal prepared and nothing else, ever, a child quickly learns that the choice on offer is eat it - or go hungry.

This.

My grandsons are terrible for this. Feeding them is a real chore. My widowed son really struggles but their late mum used to cook three different meals for them. I have often explained to my son when I was a child and when he was a child there was one meal provided at each sitting and no choice and I can’t recall anyone having food fads.

Junk food tends to be cheap and doesn’t require much cooking or use of electricity. Could be a reason ?

MrsNemo

A Health Visitor friend remarked that there are no food fads in poor homes. That has always seemed to be the nub of the situation - if there is one meal prepared and nothing else, ever, a child quickly learns that the choice on offer is eat it - or go hungry.

Yes MrsNemo, but the implication in a lot of posts is that poor homes buy junk/UPF food.
You’d think all poor families would be vegan-veggies being cheaper than meat, or would fill up on peanut butter, but why should they be condemned to a meat free diet because that’s all they can afford instead of having a choice?

A Health Visitor friend remarked that there are no food fads in poor homes. That has always seemed to be the nub of the situation - if there is one meal prepared and nothing else, ever, a child quickly learns that the choice on offer is eat it - or go hungry.

Eating as low down the food chain as you can seems to be the answer - fish and fresh vegetabes, salad, homemade bread, meat from a reputable source. Like some other posters, I'm often surprised at the contents of the shopping trolleys at the checkout. No wonder people become ill when they have crisps, cakes, frozen food in batter, fizzy drinks etc. On the Panorama programme, the health of the identical twins who had eaten very different diets over two weeks was really disturbing.

Mollygo

That’s just what I’ve said Norah. They’re your children.
What if your children or their friends, if you invite them round as we did for our DC and do for our DGC don’t like what you serve? Do you consider their likes and dislikes?
I’m well aware of the parts of a meal, but I wouldn’t consider giving extra carbohydrate as a replacement for the protein they don’t like, or bulking up on dessert because they didn’t like the vegetables as a good way to demonstrate nutrition.
And then we’re back to the UPF ‘milks’. Or the peanut butter. The cheapest peanut butter that might be all someone can afford is UPF. You can, if you have the money get a less UP variety, or if you have the time and the tools, you can make your own.

Everyone is different in their approach to nutrition.

Our children, their children and grandchildren are round often. They do eat extras of some items in preference to others. All levels out in a day or two. No worry, all scratch made, healthy.

No idea what UPF milk consists of as we don't drink dairy milk, I make oat milk. Yes, wholesome peanut butter exists.

I disagree to some reasons people don't scratch cook, do eat UPFs - which could be cause to some of the chubby people out and about.

That’s just what I’ve said Norah. They’re your children.
What if your children or their friends, if you invite them round as we did for our DC and do for our DGC don’t like what you serve? Do you consider their likes and dislikes?
I’m well aware of the parts of a meal, but I wouldn’t consider giving extra carbohydrate as a replacement for the protein they don’t like, or bulking up on dessert because they didn’t like the vegetables as a good way to demonstrate nutrition.
And then we’re back to the UPF ‘milks’. Or the peanut butter. The cheapest peanut butter that might be all someone can afford is UPF. You can, if you have the money get a less UP variety, or if you have the time and the tools, you can make your own.

Mollygo

So you’re lucky your children like what you serve them. What if they didn’t?

That's just silly.

There are so many parts to a meal. The protein, starches, breads, veggies, fruits, liquids, dessert. Everybody likes something!

If they didn't like something I guess they could rummage around the fridge for cold leftovers - always lurking.

Luckily none of them dislike every food to a meal. They've been raised to eat what is available - they're not aware of "readymeals."